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So the US sanctions on Huawei, that were intended to be crippling and were fairly abrupt and harsh, had only a minor effect on Huawei. That should scare the sh

So the US sanctions on Huawei, that were intended to be crippling and were fairly abrupt and harsh, had only a minor effect on Huawei. That should scare the shit out of the US government. It means that China is much more self-sufficient in technology than they figured. The future of high technology at this time does seem to be in the hands of China with the rest of the world contributing a bit. I suspect OSes and architectural chip designs are one of the last things that China hasn't really developed home grown in a successful way, but it is likely next. Thus taking on directly Microsoft Windows, Android, ARM and Intel.

ehnto 7y ago
The leverage the US has over China is in manufacturing anyway. Huawei sanctions were a red herring.
- nrp 7y ago
  And pork, apparently: https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/12/pork-apocalypse-african-swine-fever-and-the-u-s-china-trade-war/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/12/pork-apocalypse-african...
Hydraulix989 7y ago
This posting's article also had a side bar link to a suggested article on the same news site, CN Tech Post. China is releasing its own OS, too (Unity OS -- UOS): https://cntechpost.com/2019/12/13/china-made-operating-system-releases-first-version/ https://cntechpost.com/2019/12/13/china-made-operating-syste...
- gman83 7y ago
  It's just a rebranded version of Deepin Linux.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    Which is Debian with a custom Qt-based desktop environment.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  > It has perfect functions, smooth experience and stable quality. Sounds flawless...
- gardaani 7y ago
  Their plan is to replace foreign PCs and software in all government offices and public institutions in three years. It means replacing 20-30 million PCs! That will definitely also accelerate the OS development. https://www.ft.com/content/b55fc6ee-1787-11ea-8d73-6303645ac406 https://www.ft.com/content/b55fc6ee-1787-11ea-8d73-6303645ac...
ses1984 7y ago
I thought the sanctions on Huawei were about stopping the penetration of Chinese devices into American networks and businesses for security reasons.
- sct202 7y ago
  The original sanction charge on Huawei was for selling American equipment to Iran, and all the financial transactions related to hiding that. Stealing trade secrets and patent infringement is usually fine and a block on specific products and were tacked on later.
- jdsully 7y ago
  The official reason is that they exported US tech to Iran. But its pretty obvious the whole thing is political. Even trump contradicted the official reason a day later.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > Even trump contradicted the official reason a day later. It would by now be more worrying if he didn't.
- fredmorcos 7y ago
  That's what they tell you.
- LatteLazy 7y ago
  No one has actually managed to find and actual security reasons not to accept Huawei devices. There were some really poorly informed stories that listed standard features (telnet support in routers) and tried to play them up as a sinister commie plot but they were all pretty laughable. Most countries (for instance here in the UK) assess infrastructure equipment, providers can only buy from the approved and have for decades. Huawei always passed those tests with flying colours. But I guess "chinese spies eat telecoms babies" is a much more dramatic headline...
  - ses1984 7y ago
yorwba 7y ago
> So the US sanctions on Huawei, that were intended to be crippling and were fairly abrupt and harsh, had only a minor effect on Huawei. Of course they had only a minor effect, since they were always postponed to some future date. [1] The sanctions weren't intended to be crippling and harsh, but to threaten becoming crippling and harsh unless China makes certain concessions. So long as the concessions remain on the table, the sanctions remain off the table. [1] Currently February 16, 2020 apparently: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/us-government-postpones-huawei-ban-another-90-days/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/us-government-postpo...
LatteLazy 7y ago
When the sanctions came out, I was surprised that Apple and Google DIDNT go nuclear. It seems pretty obvious that the nation of China won't just voluntarily give up all it's western smart phones. So the only other medium term alternative would be to begin work on a domestic OS. Apple and Google (and the US economy and tech sector by extension) are the big losers from that, China the big gainer. It's not quite Tin Foil Hat time, but I also wondered: if the chinese government had tried to ban foreign OSs and force a homegrown equivalent it would have been resisted at home and abroad it would have spurred (real) sanctions and possibly upset the (lucrative, strategically valuable) hardware supply chain. Trump doing it was a great way for the Chinese government to get what it wanted without looking like the bad guy (it might even be able to play the victim, especially at home). Given the predictability of these outcomes, one has to wonder: was Trump incompetent (he expected a different outcome) or was he serving a different agenda (maybe a trump hotel in Beijing is about to be approved?).
- sidibe 7y ago
  Google has little to lose from Chinese sanctions and probably gains from competitors being hurt.
kube-system 7y ago
The US government was never primarily concerned about handsets sales or technical superiority. The primary issue has always been a concern of supply-chain governance for critical infrastructure, i.e. carriers networks. The US doesn't have any of these concerns about European 5G equipment manufacturers because they are close allies. The US has a high degree of confidence that the governments of Sweden and Finland aren't going to pressure Nokia or Ericsson to compromise the support or supply-chain of US 5G infrastructure.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ci5er 7y ago
The handset business is mouse nuts economically and nobody cares at any level of national security what idiot consumers do to themselves. The "National Security" concern (economically, technologically, capability and integrity-wise) is at the carrier level. Think Cisco, not iPhone.
balls187 7y ago
> That should scare the shit out of the US government. The US outspends the next 7 countries in defense, combined. Regarding actual economic sanctions are a very effective weapon in US Foreign policy. Aside from it's military might, the US is one of the biggest players in the global economic market. That allows it to wield incredible leverage.
remir 7y ago
The future of high technology at this time does seem to be in the hands of China with the rest of the world contributing a bit. I highly doubt this. So far, what China has done is producing lower cost equivalent to products already developed by other nations. I don't see how China is leading the pack in terms of innovation, here. Beside, I don't think we can consider smart phones to be "high technology" anymore. The market is saturated with them and the innovation has slowed down massively since a couple of years ago.
- bhouston 7y ago
  I have heard this refrain from those in the west for decades about china. During those two decades China has exceeded every attempt to keep them at a certain level of development. I do not see that stopping.
  - remir 7y ago
    When China will invent game changing technology that benefit the world in a massive way, then we'll be able to say they're leaders.

ehnto 7y ago

The leverage the US has over China is in manufacturing anyway. Huawei sanctions were a red herring.

nrp 7y ago
And pork, apparently: https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/12/pork-apocalypse-african-swine-fever-and-the-u-s-china-trade-war/ https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/12/pork-apocalypse-african...

Hydraulix989 7y ago

This posting's article also had a side bar link to a suggested article on the same news site, CN Tech Post. China is releasing its own OS, too (Unity OS -- UOS): https://cntechpost.com/2019/12/13/china-made-operating-system-releases-first-version/ https://cntechpost.com/2019/12/13/china-made-operating-syste...

gman83 7y ago
It's just a rebranded version of Deepin Linux.
- yorwba 7y ago
  Which is Debian with a custom Qt-based desktop environment.
ForHackernews 7y ago
> It has perfect functions, smooth experience and stable quality. Sounds flawless...
gardaani 7y ago
Their plan is to replace foreign PCs and software in all government offices and public institutions in three years. It means replacing 20-30 million PCs! That will definitely also accelerate the OS development. https://www.ft.com/content/b55fc6ee-1787-11ea-8d73-6303645ac406 https://www.ft.com/content/b55fc6ee-1787-11ea-8d73-6303645ac...

ses1984 7y ago

I thought the sanctions on Huawei were about stopping the penetration of Chinese devices into American networks and businesses for security reasons.

sct202 7y ago
The original sanction charge on Huawei was for selling American equipment to Iran, and all the financial transactions related to hiding that. Stealing trade secrets and patent infringement is usually fine and a block on specific products and were tacked on later.
jdsully 7y ago
The official reason is that they exported US tech to Iran. But its pretty obvious the whole thing is political. Even trump contradicted the official reason a day later.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > Even trump contradicted the official reason a day later. It would by now be more worrying if he didn't.
fredmorcos 7y ago
That's what they tell you.
LatteLazy 7y ago
No one has actually managed to find and actual security reasons not to accept Huawei devices. There were some really poorly informed stories that listed standard features (telnet support in routers) and tried to play them up as a sinister commie plot but they were all pretty laughable. Most countries (for instance here in the UK) assess infrastructure equipment, providers can only buy from the approved and have for decades. Huawei always passed those tests with flying colours. But I guess "chinese spies eat telecoms babies" is a much more dramatic headline...
- ses1984 7y ago

yorwba 7y ago

> So the US sanctions on Huawei, that were intended to be crippling and were fairly abrupt and harsh, had only a minor effect on Huawei. Of course they had only a minor effect, since they were always postponed to some future date. [1] The sanctions weren't intended to be crippling and harsh, but to threaten becoming crippling and harsh unless China makes certain concessions. So long as the concessions remain on the table, the sanctions remain off the table. [1] Currently February 16, 2020 apparently: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/us-government-postpones-huawei-ban-another-90-days/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/us-government-postpo...

LatteLazy 7y ago

When the sanctions came out, I was surprised that Apple and Google DIDNT go nuclear. It seems pretty obvious that the nation of China won't just voluntarily give up all it's western smart phones. So the only other medium term alternative would be to begin work on a domestic OS. Apple and Google (and the US economy and tech sector by extension) are the big losers from that, China the big gainer. It's not quite Tin Foil Hat time, but I also wondered: if the chinese government had tried to ban foreign OSs and force a homegrown equivalent it would have been resisted at home and abroad it would have spurred (real) sanctions and possibly upset the (lucrative, strategically valuable) hardware supply chain. Trump doing it was a great way for the Chinese government to get what it wanted without looking like the bad guy (it might even be able to play the victim, especially at home). Given the predictability of these outcomes, one has to wonder: was Trump incompetent (he expected a different outcome) or was he serving a different agenda (maybe a trump hotel in Beijing is about to be approved?).

sidibe 7y ago
Google has little to lose from Chinese sanctions and probably gains from competitors being hurt.

kube-system 7y ago

The US government was never primarily concerned about handsets sales or technical superiority. The primary issue has always been a concern of supply-chain governance for critical infrastructure, i.e. carriers networks. The US doesn't have any of these concerns about European 5G equipment manufacturers because they are close allies. The US has a high degree of confidence that the governments of Sweden and Finland aren't going to pressure Nokia or Ericsson to compromise the support or supply-chain of US 5G infrastructure.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ci5er 7y ago

The handset business is mouse nuts economically and nobody cares at any level of national security what idiot consumers do to themselves. The "National Security" concern (economically, technologically, capability and integrity-wise) is at the carrier level. Think Cisco, not iPhone.

balls187 7y ago

> That should scare the shit out of the US government. The US outspends the next 7 countries in defense, combined. Regarding actual economic sanctions are a very effective weapon in US Foreign policy. Aside from it's military might, the US is one of the biggest players in the global economic market. That allows it to wield incredible leverage.

remir 7y ago

The future of high technology at this time does seem to be in the hands of China with the rest of the world contributing a bit. I highly doubt this. So far, what China has done is producing lower cost equivalent to products already developed by other nations. I don't see how China is leading the pack in terms of innovation, here. Beside, I don't think we can consider smart phones to be "high technology" anymore. The market is saturated with them and the innovation has slowed down massively since a couple of years ago.

bhouston 7y ago
I have heard this refrain from those in the west for decades about china. During those two decades China has exceeded every attempt to keep them at a certain level of development. I do not see that stopping.
- remir 7y ago
  When China will invent game changing technology that benefit the world in a massive way, then we'll be able to say they're leaders.