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> But here’s where the ECJ’s logic is harder to reject. Uber determines the price of the ride; Airbnb doesn’t set the rent. Uber sends an order to a specific dr

by gwd 7y ago

> But here’s where the ECJ’s logic is harder to reject. Uber determines the price of the ride; Airbnb doesn’t set the rent. Uber sends an order to a specific driver; Airbnb merely provides a prospective guest with a list of properties. Uber, according to Thursday’s ruling, exercises “decisive influence” over the transaction. That’s not the case with Airbnb. > That’s quite a powerful argument. Airbnb’s hands-off role — renters deal directly with hosts throughout the process — makes it less than a real estate agent. It actually has a good reason to define itself as an information provider rather than a deal facilitator. > One can imagine what the Uber app would look like if the company operated like Airbnb. A rider would enter her location and destination and get a list of drivers with their fare bids and distances from the starting point. Then the rider would make her choice based on the combination of price and arrival speed. That would make Uber an information provider rather than a taxi service. I mean, yeah. I agree 100% with this.

steve19 7y ago
> renters deal directly with hosts throughout the process Hardly. You pay Airbnb, insurance is in theory done through Airbnb, disputes are done through Airbnb. It's quite possible to have almost zero interaction with a host (host just messages a code that unlocks building and apartment). With Uber you are dealing with the driver as much as you are with a Taxi.
- 77544cec 7y ago
  Uber sets the price. That's the point.
- Ravengenocide 7y ago
  Picking out that line in particular, sure you might be right, but there's more to it, from the first quote from the parent. > Uber determines the price of the ride; Airbnb doesn’t set the rent. Uber sends an order to a specific driver; Airbnb merely provides a prospective guest with a list of properties. Uber, according to Thursday’s ruling, exercises “decisive influence” over the transaction. That’s not the case with Airbnb.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jhanschoo 7y ago
  PayPal offer these services as well. Where would you draw the line? It seems like the ECJ drew the line with the ability of service providers being able to determine the primary cost and which entity ultimately pairs customers and providers.
buzzkillington 7y ago
I wouldn't mind this at all. Am I in a hurry? That car that's three times the usual price 100 feet away is great. Do I just need to get an 80 mile trip? Ah well I guess that clunker 10 min away isn't that bad for half the usual price.
- camone 7y ago
  This model wouldn't work well for Uber (or any other ride-sharing company). Searching for an accomodation usually takes time; you compare location, facilities, size, and price, which is usually non-negligible and so makes you compare choices for longer (maybe hours or even days) to make sure you're getting more bang for your buck. This means that Airbnb's focus is on the aggregation, rather than the actual stay/experience. Uber does the aggregation for you; it lets you choose the type of experience from a preset, but that's about it. Most riders don't plan their trips hours or days in advance, but immediately (imagine taking longer to go through the choices of all possible drivers than the actual trip you're going to take).
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    There is an app that works like this (Liftago) and it's perfectly usable
  - abdullahkhalids 7y ago
    Why would it not work? Some customers can set the option, choose the cheapest car within 10 min of me. Others can set the option, choose the highest rated car within 5 min of me. Or option of closest car for me. Or whatever other criteria they want. It is not going to be that difficult from a UX point of view. I would probably pick the closest car option in the mornings, highest rated car when heading out for evening entertainment, and cheapest car when going on some long-distance errand.
luch 7y ago
> One can imagine what the Uber app would look like if the company operated like Airbnb. A rider would enter her location and destination and get a list of drivers with their fare bids and distances from the starting point. Then the rider would make her choice based on the combination of price and arrival speed. That would make Uber an information provider rather than a taxi service. Funny, that's precisely what Blablacar (https://www.blablacar.com/ https://www.blablacar.com/) is : a carpooling information provider. Though it is not supposed to be for professional drivers (but Airbnb was not supposed to be for hotel pro either)
- jxub 7y ago
  The differences between Blablacar and Airbnb were (my guesses): - Bigger initial market (350+ vs 60+ million people) - Harder regulatory environment (USA vs France) - Airbnb's superior UI and more polished products Feel free to add what I've overlooked.
agumonkey 7y ago
airbnb affect rent prices and neighborhoods, I find it dangerous, it can degrade peoples life. More than Uber (even though I don't like their business motive)
LatteLazy 7y ago
It seems to me that all the factors they list come down to "size" of the transaction though: An airbnb rental is a pricier, longer, more complex and less urgent transaction than a taxi ride. It makes sense for people to spend >1hr looking at locations and prices and making decisions and they likely do that hours (months) in advance. Meanwhile when you're running late for work and need a cab, it makes no sense to spend hours comparing drivers' ratings, car types, closeness or price per mile. To put it another way: Uber could change their app so that the "first choice" driver appeared at the top and you could just click "summon" BUT if you wanted you could go into another menu, scroll down and order drivers in terms of discount on Ubers standard rate / rating / closeness / CO2 per mile / inny or outie belly button etc. 99.9% of drivers would just hit summon and accept the price like they do today. That's their choice. But according to the court, that would fundamentally change their business model. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Starbucks serves coffee whether it just gives me the latte I ask for or whether it spends ages offering me complex combinations of organic, small farm, regional blends from my selection of 3 baristas in a variety of cups now or in 10 minutes time (all while everyone wastes time waiting).
SilasX 7y ago
That's what Sidecar was (ended operations Dec 2014), and as best I can tell, no one ever carefully distinguished Sidecar as a "good guy"; they were always lumped in with Uber and Lyft (among other four-letter words...).

by gwd 7y ago

steve19 7y ago

> renters deal directly with hosts throughout the process Hardly. You pay Airbnb, insurance is in theory done through Airbnb, disputes are done through Airbnb. It's quite possible to have almost zero interaction with a host (host just messages a code that unlocks building and apartment). With Uber you are dealing with the driver as much as you are with a Taxi.

77544cec 7y ago
Uber sets the price. That's the point.
Ravengenocide 7y ago
Picking out that line in particular, sure you might be right, but there's more to it, from the first quote from the parent. > Uber determines the price of the ride; Airbnb doesn’t set the rent. Uber sends an order to a specific driver; Airbnb merely provides a prospective guest with a list of properties. Uber, according to Thursday’s ruling, exercises “decisive influence” over the transaction. That’s not the case with Airbnb.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jhanschoo 7y ago
PayPal offer these services as well. Where would you draw the line? It seems like the ECJ drew the line with the ability of service providers being able to determine the primary cost and which entity ultimately pairs customers and providers.

buzzkillington 7y ago

I wouldn't mind this at all. Am I in a hurry? That car that's three times the usual price 100 feet away is great. Do I just need to get an 80 mile trip? Ah well I guess that clunker 10 min away isn't that bad for half the usual price.

camone 7y ago
This model wouldn't work well for Uber (or any other ride-sharing company). Searching for an accomodation usually takes time; you compare location, facilities, size, and price, which is usually non-negligible and so makes you compare choices for longer (maybe hours or even days) to make sure you're getting more bang for your buck. This means that Airbnb's focus is on the aggregation, rather than the actual stay/experience. Uber does the aggregation for you; it lets you choose the type of experience from a preset, but that's about it. Most riders don't plan their trips hours or days in advance, but immediately (imagine taking longer to go through the choices of all possible drivers than the actual trip you're going to take).
- TomMarius 7y ago
  There is an app that works like this (Liftago) and it's perfectly usable
- abdullahkhalids 7y ago
  Why would it not work? Some customers can set the option, choose the cheapest car within 10 min of me. Others can set the option, choose the highest rated car within 5 min of me. Or option of closest car for me. Or whatever other criteria they want. It is not going to be that difficult from a UX point of view. I would probably pick the closest car option in the mornings, highest rated car when heading out for evening entertainment, and cheapest car when going on some long-distance errand.

luch 7y ago

> One can imagine what the Uber app would look like if the company operated like Airbnb. A rider would enter her location and destination and get a list of drivers with their fare bids and distances from the starting point. Then the rider would make her choice based on the combination of price and arrival speed. That would make Uber an information provider rather than a taxi service. Funny, that's precisely what Blablacar (https://www.blablacar.com/ https://www.blablacar.com/) is : a carpooling information provider. Though it is not supposed to be for professional drivers (but Airbnb was not supposed to be for hotel pro either)

jxub 7y ago
The differences between Blablacar and Airbnb were (my guesses): - Bigger initial market (350+ vs 60+ million people) - Harder regulatory environment (USA vs France) - Airbnb's superior UI and more polished products Feel free to add what I've overlooked.

agumonkey 7y ago

airbnb affect rent prices and neighborhoods, I find it dangerous, it can degrade peoples life. More than Uber (even though I don't like their business motive)

LatteLazy 7y ago

It seems to me that all the factors they list come down to "size" of the transaction though: An airbnb rental is a pricier, longer, more complex and less urgent transaction than a taxi ride. It makes sense for people to spend >1hr looking at locations and prices and making decisions and they likely do that hours (months) in advance. Meanwhile when you're running late for work and need a cab, it makes no sense to spend hours comparing drivers' ratings, car types, closeness or price per mile. To put it another way: Uber could change their app so that the "first choice" driver appeared at the top and you could just click "summon" BUT if you wanted you could go into another menu, scroll down and order drivers in terms of discount on Ubers standard rate / rating / closeness / CO2 per mile / inny or outie belly button etc. 99.9% of drivers would just hit summon and accept the price like they do today. That's their choice. But according to the court, that would fundamentally change their business model. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Starbucks serves coffee whether it just gives me the latte I ask for or whether it spends ages offering me complex combinations of organic, small farm, regional blends from my selection of 3 baristas in a variety of cups now or in 10 minutes time (all while everyone wastes time waiting).

SilasX 7y ago

That's what Sidecar was (ended operations Dec 2014), and as best I can tell, no one ever carefully distinguished Sidecar as a "good guy"; they were always lumped in with Uber and Lyft (among other four-letter words...).