6 ms·

On a traditional keyboard the second row of keys ("sharps", typically black) are not only displaced further away from the player than the white keys, they are a

by prvc 7y ago

On a traditional keyboard the second row of keys ("sharps", typically black) are not only displaced further away from the player than the white keys, they are also higher. This facilitates thumb crossings, playing passages in thirds, makes common chords more comfortable, and so on. It seems these advantages are lost with this alternative keyboard. Ease of transposition is not a big advantage for a trained musician, who should be able to do it well for other reasons (like reading orchestral scores), and the contexts in which it might be useful are pretty small (accompanying a singer, pretty much).

fzzzy 7y ago
Sharps are also higher in this keyboard, what makes you think they aren't?
- prvc 7y ago
  All keys appear to be on the same plane in the video.
  - mkl 7y ago
    I think each row has a small step up here. Most Janko keyboards have a larger step up, and have the advantages you mention but more so, as the next row up is the same as the next row down.
coldtea 7y ago
>Ease of transposition is not a big advantage for a trained musician "Fast typing with QWERTY is not a problem for a trained touch typist". Only once the cost of training has been amortised, through endless hours of practice. This alternative design makes transposition trivial, and enables many other types of playing by offering more alternatives for chords, note relationships, etc. Aside from manufacturing difficulties, standardization, etc (which make sense as difficulties) I never could understand the Stockhold syndrome with the prevalent designs being considered good for what they are. They are not any kind of optimal or best-compromise, just historical accidents. >makes common chords more comfortable This reverses cause and effect. It's not like there are common chords people like and the piano makes it easier to play them. It's the reverse: the piano makes it easier to play certain chords, so people have resorted to using them more, making them more "common". They're common because the piano forces them on you. (Guitarists have similar common chords they prefer to write to, because the guitar design and standard tuning make them easier). This alternative design frees people from having to accept some chords as easier making all chords equally easy and equally transportable. In fact easier, as there are multiple fingerings to chose from. >and the contexts in which it might be useful are pretty small (accompanying a singer, pretty much). That leaves out jazz, which uses transposition all the time (singer or not), and of course downplays accompanying a signer, which is what 99% of professional keyboard players do. The world has more bands and honky tonks than classical pianists. And it's not like such a keyboard like Janko or the Chromatone is some wild design that only some inventor and 10 fans use. Historically tons of accordionists (in Eastern Europe and Latin America) play similar keyboard designs...
- Frondo 7y ago
  One question, out of curiosity, is the chromatic button accordion at all popular in Latino music? I know they play a lot of button accordion (not counting the bandoneon, the popular free reed instrument in Argentinian tango), but from what I've seen it's exclusively a keyed button accordion, e.g not chromatic and has none of the transposition benefits of the chromatic, which is, as you pointed out, the dominant style in Eastern Europe and Russia (where it's called a bayan). But if Latino musicians are playing chromatic button accordion too, that's cool.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >is the chromatic button accordion at all popular in Latino music? It's mostly diatonic accordions (and bandoneons, etc) in Latin music, but chromatic (including piano style accordions) also make their appearance.
- fortran77 7y ago
  It's really not a big deal. A few years of playing every scale and chord progressions in every key back when I was 10 years old, and solfege training with "movable do" and now I can play anything in any key.
  - prvc 7y ago
    It's so natural that I'm skeptical that there is any additional cognitive burden for a trained player on the traditional system vs a trained player on the Janko system. Perhaps even the reverse
    - zozbot234 7y ago
      The Janko system would work very well with solmization, as opposed to the usual kind of solfege. The relevant difference is that in solmization all half-step intervals (including those that are introduced via accidentals!) are always read as mi-fa. These half-steps are precisely the intervals that are treated specially in Janko and other isomorphic keyboards, compared to the diatonic standard.

by prvc 7y ago

fzzzy 7y ago

Sharps are also higher in this keyboard, what makes you think they aren't?

prvc 7y ago
All keys appear to be on the same plane in the video.
- mkl 7y ago
  I think each row has a small step up here. Most Janko keyboards have a larger step up, and have the advantages you mention but more so, as the next row up is the same as the next row down.

coldtea 7y ago

>Ease of transposition is not a big advantage for a trained musician "Fast typing with QWERTY is not a problem for a trained touch typist". Only once the cost of training has been amortised, through endless hours of practice. This alternative design makes transposition trivial, and enables many other types of playing by offering more alternatives for chords, note relationships, etc. Aside from manufacturing difficulties, standardization, etc (which make sense as difficulties) I never could understand the Stockhold syndrome with the prevalent designs being considered good for what they are. They are not any kind of optimal or best-compromise, just historical accidents. >makes common chords more comfortable This reverses cause and effect. It's not like there are common chords people like and the piano makes it easier to play them. It's the reverse: the piano makes it easier to play certain chords, so people have resorted to using them more, making them more "common". They're common because the piano forces them on you. (Guitarists have similar common chords they prefer to write to, because the guitar design and standard tuning make them easier). This alternative design frees people from having to accept some chords as easier making all chords equally easy and equally transportable. In fact easier, as there are multiple fingerings to chose from. >and the contexts in which it might be useful are pretty small (accompanying a singer, pretty much). That leaves out jazz, which uses transposition all the time (singer or not), and of course downplays accompanying a signer, which is what 99% of professional keyboard players do. The world has more bands and honky tonks than classical pianists. And it's not like such a keyboard like Janko or the Chromatone is some wild design that only some inventor and 10 fans use. Historically tons of accordionists (in Eastern Europe and Latin America) play similar keyboard designs...

Frondo 7y ago
One question, out of curiosity, is the chromatic button accordion at all popular in Latino music? I know they play a lot of button accordion (not counting the bandoneon, the popular free reed instrument in Argentinian tango), but from what I've seen it's exclusively a keyed button accordion, e.g not chromatic and has none of the transposition benefits of the chromatic, which is, as you pointed out, the dominant style in Eastern Europe and Russia (where it's called a bayan). But if Latino musicians are playing chromatic button accordion too, that's cool.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >is the chromatic button accordion at all popular in Latino music? It's mostly diatonic accordions (and bandoneons, etc) in Latin music, but chromatic (including piano style accordions) also make their appearance.
fortran77 7y ago
It's really not a big deal. A few years of playing every scale and chord progressions in every key back when I was 10 years old, and solfege training with "movable do" and now I can play anything in any key.
- prvc 7y ago
  It's so natural that I'm skeptical that there is any additional cognitive burden for a trained player on the traditional system vs a trained player on the Janko system. Perhaps even the reverse
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    The Janko system would work very well with solmization, as opposed to the usual kind of solfege. The relevant difference is that in solmization all half-step intervals (including those that are introduced via accidentals!) are always read as mi-fa. These half-steps are precisely the intervals that are treated specially in Janko and other isomorphic keyboards, compared to the diatonic standard.