10 ms·

German court bans Uber's ride-hailing services in Germany

64 points by notlukesky 7y ago

mschuster91 7y ago
Good riddance. I'm very happy that the US VC model of blatantly ignoring rules, growing (and thus creating popular demand / support) and then lobbying for law amendments in their favor has failed here. A key part of why Uber failed in Germany is also that our taxi market is massively and properly regulated which means the selling points of Uber being a better taxi service simply were irrelevant here - our taxis come when you order them, the drivers are competent and will take you on the most efficient way possible to your destination and the pricing is consistent no matter if it's day or night, if it's high demand time thanks to e.g. a trade fair or not, or if you're drunk or sober. The only thing that sucks is that many do not take cards, but that's a cultural thing - Germans love their cash.
- MrGilbert 7y ago
  > Germans love their cash. I think it has to do with generations. I see more and more stores (even bakeries, O.M.G.!) accepting cards without lower limits - and I live in a town with ~80.000 people. Give it some more years, and it will work out.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    AFAIK card limits have been illegal for some years.
    - vassilyk 7y ago
      Where? Germany? In France I don't know what is the regulation but still many places will ask for minimum charges, sometimes around 10€. In the UK I sometimes pay for a single Banana by card, 50p (0.6€). When I do, I wonder if the highest carbon footprint was from the payment processing or the banana processing!
      - anoncake 7y ago
        Germany but if there's an actual law it's probably EU-wide. I haven't found one but I have found rumors that PSD2 banned minimum charges. I guess everyone is complying to a phantom law.
    - mehrdadn 7y ago
      AFAIK they've been allowed and disallowed and re-allowed under contracts with the payment networks over the years; currently I think at least in the US they're allowed, but regardless, I'm not aware of them having been illegal.
- kmlx 7y ago
  "A key part of why Uber failed in Germany is also that our taxi market is massively and properly regulated" expensive, poor service where incumbents reign supreme. immigrants and the night economy workers are constantly being discriminated against. the "german model" is an antiquated POS that already died out.
  - tastroder 7y ago
    The German system might have problems but also comes with upsides, e.g. mandatory 24 hour ride coverage in the more rural areas as a condition of cab licenses, training, ... I mean, is there anything stopping Uber from going for cab licenses and giving their employees the protection our laws dictate? That might not fit their business model and the regular cab model might be bad but I'm not convinced that the Uber/pseudo ride share alternative is all roses either. It certainly can't be the solution to just replace badly behaving incumbents with some cheap startup that doesn't even employ their drivers.
    - kmlx 7y ago
      > giving their employees the protection our laws dictate? > some cheap startup that doesn't even employ their drivers. the world has changed decades ago. i think it's time for your laws to change as well. overall your comment reminds me of this: “When behavior runs into poor design, behavior always, and I mean always, wins.” —@asymco
      - mschuster91 7y ago
        You want riots like in France? Because that tends to happen when you screw over workers rights for more profits for the elites. It's gonna be real fun for Uber and the other "gig economy" exploiters if Warren or Sanders win.
      - tastroder 7y ago
        > the world has changed decades ago. i think it's time for your laws to change as well. The European approaches to worker protection aren't a thing the world has just moved on from because they want a more convenient and slightly cheaper cab service. My comment was meant to point out that these regulations don't just mean to stifle some radical new business model. I for one can live without yet another industry based on worker exploitation, we've got enough of those already. Or maybe, to encourage discussion rather than dismissing that view: what upside would the German society have from relaxing that legislation? That sector could use some deregulation, sure, but I don't see the point of replacing it with a player that wants none.
- wolfgke 7y ago
  > The only thing that sucks is that many do not take cards, but that's a cultural thing - Germans love their cash. With an experience of two surveillance states on German soil in the 20th century (of which one ended just about 30 years ago), it is a very good idea to use a very privacy-conscious method of payment whenever possible. Currenly cash is arguably the best option for this.
- barrkel 7y ago
  The only time I've used MyTaxi the driver drove us in a blatantly longer route to get more money out of us. I trust Uber much more. It's a common pattern, a lot of things are backward and lagging behind the times in Germany, and so many Germans are convinced it's better that way, but they still change, just 10 or more years later. I'll update my opinion when international debit and credit cards are universally accepted rather than needing bank cards.
  - pgeorgi 7y ago
    > I'll update my opinion when international debit and credit cards are universally accepted rather than needing bank cards. That's coming now that credit cards aren't fleecing merchants anymore: they just weren't competitive against bank cards (or, gasp!, cash) until ~10 years ago with their ~3% fees. That dropped to ~1.5% 5 years ago due to EU regulations and is now limited to 0.3%, which is, surprise surprise, the fee we had for bank cards. So it's not due to "backwards Germans", or due to the "free market", it's due to regulations that credit cards are now making inroads, because their operators were forced to make a competitive offer.
wetpaws 7y ago
As Austin example demonstrated, once cat is out of the box it's virtually impossible to ban ride-sharing, people will create a black market using makeshift apps, Google docs, Facebook groups, etc.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Ride sharing isn't a problem, and Uber isn't ride sharing (despite the tech media insistence on this doublespeak), it's just a pirate taxi.
  - atq2119 7y ago
    Uber Pool is a kind of ride sharing, and it's arguably the only really good thing that has come out of Uber. The question is whether it makes sense in Europe at scale, or whether it should be limited to the kind of low-density urban developments that are typical for the US.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    a pirate taxi That sounds pretty awesome, to be fair.
    - concerned_user 7y ago
      Except the part where Uber is being a greedy captain and taking most of the plunder.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Yeah, I spent a minute or two looking for a different phrasing, but I couldn't find one. What's the word for pirates that actually form a global organized crime ring with enough wealth to defy governments?
      - cmendel 7y ago
        Either a corporation or a cartel typically.
      - 7y ago
Nextgrid 7y ago
I was mostly pro-Uber until their fraudulent way of doing business affected me directly, in the form of providing a poor service (on Uber Eats) and refusing to provide a refund up to the point where I had to file a chargeback just to get my money back. They took my money to deliver one thing, gave me something totally different and told me that they are "not in a position to offer a price adjustment or compensation for this order." Now they can fuck off and I am very happy to hear this. Also hoping they lose their appeal in London and disappear for good. Their self-driving car efforts failing miserably and the VC money running out is just the icing on the cake. They've been good at forcing the existing taxi/transport industry to modernise but now that they've done that it's time to say goodbye to their fraud & lack of ethics and open the doors to competitors who do much better on those fronts.
- weego 7y ago
  More to the point, even in the smallish Scottish town I live in the local companies now have an app that's almost as good as Ubers (it doesn't provide business expense receipts) so their entire value proposition for me is now zero over companies/drivers that are actually licensed.
- kmlx 7y ago
  "Now they can fuck off and I am very happy to hear this. Also hoping they lose their appeal in London and disappear for good. " i think uber is by far the best thing to happen to transport and part-time work in decades. i've known so many drives all around the world working for uber 1-2 hours per day. even knew a guy that worked for them just 2 trips per day: his daily commute. just the feeling of not being denied service because you're brown, or that you want to travel to a certain neighbourhood, is a vast, vast improvement over the incumbents. of course the taxi drivers don't want to change their horrible service. they paid good money for a job that will hopefully be completely automated in the near future. "They've been good at forcing the existing taxi/transport industry to modernise" if by modernise you mean "hire more expensive lawyers to sue everyone", then you're right.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    > best thing to happen to transport and part-time work in decades Being "employed" by a company that ignores laws and has zero support for their drivers ("partner" drivers as they call them) is the best thing? > by modernise you mean "hire more expensive lawyers to sue everyone", then you're right. A lot of local transport companies now have their own app that offers the same experience as Uber.
manbearpiggy 7y ago
Quite often people just see it from a consumer's point of view but if I were a taxi driver, why would I want to work for Uber? Sure it's good for early adopters but ultimately you get no job security and no wage security.
- jackcodes 7y ago
  Having spoken to enough Uber drivers in West Yorkshire (you don’t have a choice, they will talk to you) you start to get a feeling for the reasons. Flexibility of working hours is a big thing. People like to be able to drop shifts and pick them up as and when they need. If they need more money in the run up to Christmas they can put more time in. The other is that the firms aren’t exactly bastions of fairness either. I hear time and again that the operators give the jobs to their favourite staff, or as described; whoever is fucking the operator. The concept of working for a boss and having to deal with some fundamental injustice seems to ring true. For better or worse Uber is seen as ‘fair’ to the drivers, at least on the whole. The rules are at least laid out, keep your rating clean and we’ll give you jobs just like anyone else.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    > For better or worse Uber is seen as ‘fair’ to the drivers, at least on the whole. The rules are at least laid out, If true, people wouldn’t be complaining about surge pricing. People just want cheap, quality, fast service. They don’t care about fair. The transparency provided by electronic records and payment of taxi rides does lead to better service though.
    - mft_ 7y ago
      Not sure if you’re missing the point made. Consumers are the ones likely to complain about surge pricing. Drivers are the ones who (in the example given) do want fairness from the dispatcher, which they sometimes don’t get with traditional taxi companies and human dispatchers, but presumably do from Uber’s algorithm.
      - 7y ago
snazzycalynx 7y ago
Most Uber drivers have been more pleasant than most cab drivers I've ever used. ALL Uber vehicles have been more clean/pleasant than any cabs I've been in.
Animats 7y ago
Uber was banned in Germany back in 2014.[1] They're still running. [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/court-strikes-down-uber-car-service-in-germany/ https://www.cnet.com/news/court-strikes-down-uber-car-servic...
- zaarn 7y ago
  In 2014 Uber was banned from operating like in the US; having a lot of fake-selfemployed people being paid below minimum wage to drive other people around. The new operation was to only dish the rides out to rental companies and using a bit of trickery to work around the previous ruling and some regulation, that has been killed off too now.
nbzklr 7y ago
I know a few people that are heavily invested into Uber here in Germany, with over 20 cars and drivers each. They will not be happy about this ruling. Here is some context on how things worked thus far: Since Uber is not allowed to dispatch directly to independent drivers (see the ruling from 2015), they instead partnered with rental-car companies that employ the drivers. So in theory, Uber would dispatch a ride to one of their partners, who then dispatches it to one of their drivers. In practice, however, everything worked just as you know it from other countries, with the only difference being that Uber would send an email to the business owner containing two links: one to accept the ride and one to decline. Whenever the business owner clicks accept, the driver would get a text message with the approval. But at this time, he already would have accepted the ride in the app and be on his way. So effectively, the business owners had zero control. It is no surprise that the Taxi companies are mad, because they are unable to compete under the current set of rules. In addition, Uber has heavily subsidized rides with discounts of up to 50% for multiple weeks and generous hourly guarantees for their partners.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  > It is no surprise that the Taxi companies are mad, because they are unable to compete under the current set of rules. Apart from subsidies Uber might use, why aren't taxi companies able to compete? Is something stopping them from doing exactly what Uber is doing (Such as have good apps, pre payment etc.)? If that's the case, that they are bound from developing their own business by regulation - why is that?
  - saiya-jin 7y ago
    You are expecting market behavior in business that for decades was pure monopoly. We all know the answers to those questions. In open market, taxi business in its current form would be dead long time ago. But not if you gave state-guaranteed monopoly on a service that many people simply need and have few other options.
    - usrusr 7y ago
      Where is that monopoly you are talking about? "Taxi" is not a company.
sasavilic 7y ago
I hope that airbnb is next.
a254613e 7y ago
This is terrible news. Taxi drivers, at least in Munich, are just horrible. They're always unfriendly, and their driving is very aggressive, more often than not accompanied by swearing, and just overall uncomfortable. Cars also aren't as clean as the uber ones. I avoid it at any cost, even when they're free, for example when public transportation has issues they offer free taxis to the affected passengers. I always opt out for walking, renting a bike, if it's close, or paying for an uber if it's a longer distance, rather than driving for free with the taxi. The only advantage taxis had over uber is that there's more of them, and during some larger events such as Oktoberfest uber was always fully booked. The regulation needs to be relaxed so that uber, and others, can compete based on their service - not some other rules and weird laws like the one mentioned in the article "that hired cars have to return to a rental firm’s main office after carrying out a ride,"
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  The regulation needs to be relaxed so that uber, and others, can compete based on their service Or, you know, Uber respecting regulation and adhere to it? But that, of course, would completely kill their business model, which essentially is not really a cab service, but regulation arbitrage. At least until the law cracks down on them.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Really, what needs to happen is both. Sure, regulations may need review and adjustment for the smartphone era. But Uber should be burned to the ground by their blatant violation of the law. Sometimes breaking the law in the cause of good is justified. But Uber isn't doing civil disobedience, it's a greedy multinational that unilaterally decided to ignore the laws that stand between them and their profits. Such behavior has no place in a civilized society.
Traubenfuchs 7y ago
Taxi drivers have an incentive to scam you, uber drivers have an incentive to deliver you asap. Taxi companies around the world refuse to give a price before starting the ride. Everything about the current model is flawed.
- pgeorgi 7y ago
  > Taxi companies around the world refuse to give a price before starting the ride. In my region (in Germany), up to 4 passengers: €2.50 base fee + €2.20/km. 36€/hr if you want them to wait for you. Larger car (6 passengers + lots of room for luggage) is 15€ extra. Fixed price to the near-by airport, other destinations can be pre-calculated on request. Those prices are valid all day and night, no matter if there's a concert/soccer game/whatever competing for the company's attention. Seems pretty transparent to me: I know today what I'd pay for any given route in 2 months. Uber? Can be anything from ultra cheap to ultra expensive depending on the mood of their algorithm in the given moment.
naskwo 7y ago
IANAL, but it is likely that Uber has a good shot to appeal this at the EU level: This ruling is rather incongruent with the recent Airbnb ruling (1) where Airbnb was ruled to be nothing more than an "information society service". (Rant: you could apply this label to anything from a public library to a sadistic secret service.) Comparable to Uber, Airbnb makes money per transaction, yet claims it is no more than an information medium. I used to operate several large classifieds sites in the Netherlands, and am rather certain that as soon as the platform starts collecting per-transaction fees, it becomes part of the transaction, as it is in fact a broker between two parties. In my (consumer) view: Uber adds value and convenience to a city and threatens an inefficient and monopolistic status quo (at least here in the Netherlands), whereas Airbnb turns housing into business cases, for better of for worse (and in Amsterdam: for worse). 1: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/19/eu-court-rules-airbnb-does-not-require-estate-agents-licence https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/19/eu-court-...
username90 7y ago
Uber automated away basically all white collar and managerial jobs from the taxi industry, no wonder paper pushers have an axe to grind with them. I hope we see more companies like Uber in the future, automating away paper pushers is long overdue since it is politically hard or often times even illegal.

64 points by notlukesky 7y ago

Good riddance. I'm very happy that the US VC model of blatantly ignoring rules, growing (and thus creating popular demand / support) and then lobbying for law amendments in their favor has failed here. A key part of why Uber failed in Germany is also that our taxi market is massively and properly regulated which means the selling points of Uber being a better taxi service simply were irrelevant here - our taxis come when you order them, the drivers are competent and will take you on the most efficient way possible to your destination and the pricing is consistent no matter if it's day or night, if it's high demand time thanks to e.g. a trade fair or not, or if you're drunk or sober. The only thing that sucks is that many do not take cards, but that's a cultural thing - Germans love their cash.

MrGilbert 7y ago
> Germans love their cash. I think it has to do with generations. I see more and more stores (even bakeries, O.M.G.!) accepting cards without lower limits - and I live in a town with ~80.000 people. Give it some more years, and it will work out.
- anoncake 7y ago
  AFAIK card limits have been illegal for some years.
  - vassilyk 7y ago
    Where? Germany? In France I don't know what is the regulation but still many places will ask for minimum charges, sometimes around 10€. In the UK I sometimes pay for a single Banana by card, 50p (0.6€). When I do, I wonder if the highest carbon footprint was from the payment processing or the banana processing!
    - anoncake 7y ago
      Germany but if there's an actual law it's probably EU-wide. I haven't found one but I have found rumors that PSD2 banned minimum charges. I guess everyone is complying to a phantom law.
  - mehrdadn 7y ago
    AFAIK they've been allowed and disallowed and re-allowed under contracts with the payment networks over the years; currently I think at least in the US they're allowed, but regardless, I'm not aware of them having been illegal.
kmlx 7y ago
"A key part of why Uber failed in Germany is also that our taxi market is massively and properly regulated" expensive, poor service where incumbents reign supreme. immigrants and the night economy workers are constantly being discriminated against. the "german model" is an antiquated POS that already died out.
- tastroder 7y ago
  The German system might have problems but also comes with upsides, e.g. mandatory 24 hour ride coverage in the more rural areas as a condition of cab licenses, training, ... I mean, is there anything stopping Uber from going for cab licenses and giving their employees the protection our laws dictate? That might not fit their business model and the regular cab model might be bad but I'm not convinced that the Uber/pseudo ride share alternative is all roses either. It certainly can't be the solution to just replace badly behaving incumbents with some cheap startup that doesn't even employ their drivers.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    > giving their employees the protection our laws dictate? > some cheap startup that doesn't even employ their drivers. the world has changed decades ago. i think it's time for your laws to change as well. overall your comment reminds me of this: “When behavior runs into poor design, behavior always, and I mean always, wins.” —@asymco
    - mschuster91 7y ago
      You want riots like in France? Because that tends to happen when you screw over workers rights for more profits for the elites. It's gonna be real fun for Uber and the other "gig economy" exploiters if Warren or Sanders win.
    - tastroder 7y ago
      > the world has changed decades ago. i think it's time for your laws to change as well. The European approaches to worker protection aren't a thing the world has just moved on from because they want a more convenient and slightly cheaper cab service. My comment was meant to point out that these regulations don't just mean to stifle some radical new business model. I for one can live without yet another industry based on worker exploitation, we've got enough of those already. Or maybe, to encourage discussion rather than dismissing that view: what upside would the German society have from relaxing that legislation? That sector could use some deregulation, sure, but I don't see the point of replacing it with a player that wants none.
wolfgke 7y ago
> The only thing that sucks is that many do not take cards, but that's a cultural thing - Germans love their cash. With an experience of two surveillance states on German soil in the 20th century (of which one ended just about 30 years ago), it is a very good idea to use a very privacy-conscious method of payment whenever possible. Currenly cash is arguably the best option for this.
barrkel 7y ago
The only time I've used MyTaxi the driver drove us in a blatantly longer route to get more money out of us. I trust Uber much more. It's a common pattern, a lot of things are backward and lagging behind the times in Germany, and so many Germans are convinced it's better that way, but they still change, just 10 or more years later. I'll update my opinion when international debit and credit cards are universally accepted rather than needing bank cards.
- pgeorgi 7y ago
  > I'll update my opinion when international debit and credit cards are universally accepted rather than needing bank cards. That's coming now that credit cards aren't fleecing merchants anymore: they just weren't competitive against bank cards (or, gasp!, cash) until ~10 years ago with their ~3% fees. That dropped to ~1.5% 5 years ago due to EU regulations and is now limited to 0.3%, which is, surprise surprise, the fee we had for bank cards. So it's not due to "backwards Germans", or due to the "free market", it's due to regulations that credit cards are now making inroads, because their operators were forced to make a competitive offer.

wetpaws 7y ago

As Austin example demonstrated, once cat is out of the box it's virtually impossible to ban ride-sharing, people will create a black market using makeshift apps, Google docs, Facebook groups, etc.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
Ride sharing isn't a problem, and Uber isn't ride sharing (despite the tech media insistence on this doublespeak), it's just a pirate taxi.
- atq2119 7y ago
  Uber Pool is a kind of ride sharing, and it's arguably the only really good thing that has come out of Uber. The question is whether it makes sense in Europe at scale, or whether it should be limited to the kind of low-density urban developments that are typical for the US.
- onion2k 7y ago
  a pirate taxi That sounds pretty awesome, to be fair.
  - concerned_user 7y ago
    Except the part where Uber is being a greedy captain and taking most of the plunder.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Yeah, I spent a minute or two looking for a different phrasing, but I couldn't find one. What's the word for pirates that actually form a global organized crime ring with enough wealth to defy governments?
    - cmendel 7y ago
      Either a corporation or a cartel typically.
    - 7y ago

Nextgrid 7y ago

I was mostly pro-Uber until their fraudulent way of doing business affected me directly, in the form of providing a poor service (on Uber Eats) and refusing to provide a refund up to the point where I had to file a chargeback just to get my money back. They took my money to deliver one thing, gave me something totally different and told me that they are "not in a position to offer a price adjustment or compensation for this order." Now they can fuck off and I am very happy to hear this. Also hoping they lose their appeal in London and disappear for good. Their self-driving car efforts failing miserably and the VC money running out is just the icing on the cake. They've been good at forcing the existing taxi/transport industry to modernise but now that they've done that it's time to say goodbye to their fraud & lack of ethics and open the doors to competitors who do much better on those fronts.

weego 7y ago
More to the point, even in the smallish Scottish town I live in the local companies now have an app that's almost as good as Ubers (it doesn't provide business expense receipts) so their entire value proposition for me is now zero over companies/drivers that are actually licensed.
kmlx 7y ago
"Now they can fuck off and I am very happy to hear this. Also hoping they lose their appeal in London and disappear for good. " i think uber is by far the best thing to happen to transport and part-time work in decades. i've known so many drives all around the world working for uber 1-2 hours per day. even knew a guy that worked for them just 2 trips per day: his daily commute. just the feeling of not being denied service because you're brown, or that you want to travel to a certain neighbourhood, is a vast, vast improvement over the incumbents. of course the taxi drivers don't want to change their horrible service. they paid good money for a job that will hopefully be completely automated in the near future. "They've been good at forcing the existing taxi/transport industry to modernise" if by modernise you mean "hire more expensive lawyers to sue everyone", then you're right.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  > best thing to happen to transport and part-time work in decades Being "employed" by a company that ignores laws and has zero support for their drivers ("partner" drivers as they call them) is the best thing? > by modernise you mean "hire more expensive lawyers to sue everyone", then you're right. A lot of local transport companies now have their own app that offers the same experience as Uber.

manbearpiggy 7y ago

Quite often people just see it from a consumer's point of view but if I were a taxi driver, why would I want to work for Uber? Sure it's good for early adopters but ultimately you get no job security and no wage security.

jackcodes 7y ago
Having spoken to enough Uber drivers in West Yorkshire (you don’t have a choice, they will talk to you) you start to get a feeling for the reasons. Flexibility of working hours is a big thing. People like to be able to drop shifts and pick them up as and when they need. If they need more money in the run up to Christmas they can put more time in. The other is that the firms aren’t exactly bastions of fairness either. I hear time and again that the operators give the jobs to their favourite staff, or as described; whoever is fucking the operator. The concept of working for a boss and having to deal with some fundamental injustice seems to ring true. For better or worse Uber is seen as ‘fair’ to the drivers, at least on the whole. The rules are at least laid out, keep your rating clean and we’ll give you jobs just like anyone else.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  > For better or worse Uber is seen as ‘fair’ to the drivers, at least on the whole. The rules are at least laid out, If true, people wouldn’t be complaining about surge pricing. People just want cheap, quality, fast service. They don’t care about fair. The transparency provided by electronic records and payment of taxi rides does lead to better service though.
  - mft_ 7y ago
    Not sure if you’re missing the point made. Consumers are the ones likely to complain about surge pricing. Drivers are the ones who (in the example given) do want fairness from the dispatcher, which they sometimes don’t get with traditional taxi companies and human dispatchers, but presumably do from Uber’s algorithm.
    - 7y ago

snazzycalynx 7y ago

Most Uber drivers have been more pleasant than most cab drivers I've ever used. ALL Uber vehicles have been more clean/pleasant than any cabs I've been in.

Animats 7y ago

Uber was banned in Germany back in 2014.[1] They're still running. [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/court-strikes-down-uber-car-service-in-germany/ https://www.cnet.com/news/court-strikes-down-uber-car-servic...

zaarn 7y ago
In 2014 Uber was banned from operating like in the US; having a lot of fake-selfemployed people being paid below minimum wage to drive other people around. The new operation was to only dish the rides out to rental companies and using a bit of trickery to work around the previous ruling and some regulation, that has been killed off too now.

nbzklr 7y ago

I know a few people that are heavily invested into Uber here in Germany, with over 20 cars and drivers each. They will not be happy about this ruling. Here is some context on how things worked thus far: Since Uber is not allowed to dispatch directly to independent drivers (see the ruling from 2015), they instead partnered with rental-car companies that employ the drivers. So in theory, Uber would dispatch a ride to one of their partners, who then dispatches it to one of their drivers. In practice, however, everything worked just as you know it from other countries, with the only difference being that Uber would send an email to the business owner containing two links: one to accept the ride and one to decline. Whenever the business owner clicks accept, the driver would get a text message with the approval. But at this time, he already would have accepted the ride in the app and be on his way. So effectively, the business owners had zero control. It is no surprise that the Taxi companies are mad, because they are unable to compete under the current set of rules. In addition, Uber has heavily subsidized rides with discounts of up to 50% for multiple weeks and generous hourly guarantees for their partners.

alkonaut 7y ago
> It is no surprise that the Taxi companies are mad, because they are unable to compete under the current set of rules. Apart from subsidies Uber might use, why aren't taxi companies able to compete? Is something stopping them from doing exactly what Uber is doing (Such as have good apps, pre payment etc.)? If that's the case, that they are bound from developing their own business by regulation - why is that?
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  You are expecting market behavior in business that for decades was pure monopoly. We all know the answers to those questions. In open market, taxi business in its current form would be dead long time ago. But not if you gave state-guaranteed monopoly on a service that many people simply need and have few other options.
  - usrusr 7y ago
    Where is that monopoly you are talking about? "Taxi" is not a company.

sasavilic 7y ago

I hope that airbnb is next.

a254613e 7y ago

This is terrible news. Taxi drivers, at least in Munich, are just horrible. They're always unfriendly, and their driving is very aggressive, more often than not accompanied by swearing, and just overall uncomfortable. Cars also aren't as clean as the uber ones. I avoid it at any cost, even when they're free, for example when public transportation has issues they offer free taxis to the affected passengers. I always opt out for walking, renting a bike, if it's close, or paying for an uber if it's a longer distance, rather than driving for free with the taxi. The only advantage taxis had over uber is that there's more of them, and during some larger events such as Oktoberfest uber was always fully booked. The regulation needs to be relaxed so that uber, and others, can compete based on their service - not some other rules and weird laws like the one mentioned in the article "that hired cars have to return to a rental firm’s main office after carrying out a ride,"

CaptainZapp 7y ago
The regulation needs to be relaxed so that uber, and others, can compete based on their service Or, you know, Uber respecting regulation and adhere to it? But that, of course, would completely kill their business model, which essentially is not really a cab service, but regulation arbitrage. At least until the law cracks down on them.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Really, what needs to happen is both. Sure, regulations may need review and adjustment for the smartphone era. But Uber should be burned to the ground by their blatant violation of the law. Sometimes breaking the law in the cause of good is justified. But Uber isn't doing civil disobedience, it's a greedy multinational that unilaterally decided to ignore the laws that stand between them and their profits. Such behavior has no place in a civilized society.

Traubenfuchs 7y ago

Taxi drivers have an incentive to scam you, uber drivers have an incentive to deliver you asap. Taxi companies around the world refuse to give a price before starting the ride. Everything about the current model is flawed.

pgeorgi 7y ago
> Taxi companies around the world refuse to give a price before starting the ride. In my region (in Germany), up to 4 passengers: €2.50 base fee + €2.20/km. 36€/hr if you want them to wait for you. Larger car (6 passengers + lots of room for luggage) is 15€ extra. Fixed price to the near-by airport, other destinations can be pre-calculated on request. Those prices are valid all day and night, no matter if there's a concert/soccer game/whatever competing for the company's attention. Seems pretty transparent to me: I know today what I'd pay for any given route in 2 months. Uber? Can be anything from ultra cheap to ultra expensive depending on the mood of their algorithm in the given moment.

naskwo 7y ago

IANAL, but it is likely that Uber has a good shot to appeal this at the EU level: This ruling is rather incongruent with the recent Airbnb ruling (1) where Airbnb was ruled to be nothing more than an "information society service". (Rant: you could apply this label to anything from a public library to a sadistic secret service.) Comparable to Uber, Airbnb makes money per transaction, yet claims it is no more than an information medium. I used to operate several large classifieds sites in the Netherlands, and am rather certain that as soon as the platform starts collecting per-transaction fees, it becomes part of the transaction, as it is in fact a broker between two parties. In my (consumer) view: Uber adds value and convenience to a city and threatens an inefficient and monopolistic status quo (at least here in the Netherlands), whereas Airbnb turns housing into business cases, for better of for worse (and in Amsterdam: for worse). 1: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/19/eu-court-rules-airbnb-does-not-require-estate-agents-licence https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/19/eu-court-...

username90 7y ago

Uber automated away basically all white collar and managerial jobs from the taxi industry, no wonder paper pushers have an axe to grind with them. I hope we see more companies like Uber in the future, automating away paper pushers is long overdue since it is politically hard or often times even illegal.