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>The 737-Max could not pass 25.173 certification standard. This was the result of larger engines needing to be mounted farther forward due to the constraint of
by na85 7y ago
>The 737-Max could not pass 25.173 certification standard. This was the result of larger engines needing to be mounted farther forward due to the constraint of the 737 landing gear.
What I'm suggesting is that if they were to just call it say, the 797 (or whatever), then they could make the handling characteristics different from the 737 and solve the pitching moment problem in a different way that would have been safer.
- sokoloff 7y agoYes. They could put the larger engines under a different wing with taller landing gear and call it a 757. ;)
- foldr 7y agoNo need. The plane is perfectly flyable without MCAS. It just handles differently to other 737s in parts of the flight envelope.
- sokoloff 7y agoThere is a legal need (to pass 25.173 requirements). The Max doesn't have MCAS because it feels different from another 737; it has MCAS because it feels different from the legal requirement to certify any civilian transport aircraft.
- jsjohnst 7y ago> has MCAS because it feels different from the legal requirement to certify any civilian transport aircraft Source for that claim? I’ve read extensively on the topic and have internal Boeing sources and everything I’ve seen says MCAS was needed to maintain the type rating, not that without MCAS the plane wasn’t airworthy.
- sokoloff 7y ago25.173.a requires the aircraft to meet this section at speeds as low as the minimum speed for steady unstalled flight. 25.173.c requires the stick force curve to have a stable and minimum slope of 1 lbf/6 knots. At high angles of attack (low speeds), the stick force reduces slightly as compared to lower angles of attack (higher speeds). This requires a negative slope at a point on the stick force curve, violating both the minimum slope and the stable slope requirement of 25.173. (indirect source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-boeings-737-max-failed-11553699239?mod=hp_lead_pos9 https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-boeings-737-max-failed-1155... ). They couch it as "pushes the nose up" (though the image cited is dual sourced to Boeing and a WSJ graphics author, so I'll wager that "pushes the nose up" is WSJ content rather than Boeing content).
- foldr 7y agoI've never seen the claim regarding 25.173 properly sourced.
- sokoloff 7y agoDon't know if any of these will satisfy or not, in advance of a final NTSB/FAA/Boeing finalization/post-mortem (I doubt all the internal docs are ever going to come out, of course): http://newsinflight.com/2019/03/29/what-causes-boeing-737max-to-stall/ http://newsinflight.com/2019/03/29/what-causes-boeing-737max... https://abnormaldistribution.org/index.php/2019/04/30/ieee-spectrum-on-possible-software-involvement-in-two-recent-airliner-crashes/ https://abnormaldistribution.org/index.php/2019/04/30/ieee-s... https://www.quora.com/Does-the-fact-that-the-pilots-of-the-737-Max-that-crashed-in-Algeria-tried-several-times-to-stop-the-plane-nosediving-mean-there-is-something-seriously-wrong-with-MCAS/answer/Alan-Dicey https://www.quora.com/Does-the-fact-that-the-pilots-of-the-7... https://seekingalpha.com/article/4286602-boeing-737-max-misconceptions-engineers-view https://seekingalpha.com/article/4286602-boeing-737-max-misc...
- rtkwe 7y agoThey could have if they'd been willing to accept a new type rating, but airlines aren't keen on retraining their 737 pilots unless they have to. Boeing's retention of the same rating was a selling point to airlines otherwise if they're having to train people anyways maybe Airbus would be worth a look?