4 ms·

> * The USPS, unlike UPS and FedEx, have a legal mandate to attempt to deliver every letter and parcel if it's in the US. Fedex and UPS are common carriers and

by tdhoot 7y ago

> * The USPS, unlike UPS and FedEx, have a legal mandate to attempt to deliver every letter and parcel if it's in the US. Fedex and UPS are common carriers and also cannot refuse a package without good grounds. USPS can also refuse a package on good grounds, for example if you try to mail prohibited substances.

colejohnson66 7y ago
I meant, attempt as in finding the address. UPS and FedEx can just return a parcel because it’s too hard to reach.
- bobbydroptables 7y ago
  USPS regularly fails to deliver important mail to me. Like it straight up doesn't show up. Never accounted for or mentioned. Almost all of these important mailings would be handled faster, safer, more reliably and more eco friendly online.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    While every carrier makes mistakes, the difference is that the USPS is legally required to deliver to you. When you don't get your USPS mail, it is a mistake, and they're required to do something about it. When some people don't get their UPS/FedEx/etc, if you call up to complain, the answer is "Oh yeah, we don't service your address. Have a nice day." Functioning governments really really need a way to physically deliver items to a person in a way that cannot be replaced by private carriers or email systems. This isn't about you getting your Amazon packages or your power bill. This is about the operational stability of basic government services. There are places in the US where UPS and FedEx do not deliver, and people live there -- people who the US government is legally required to correspond with. They cannot fulfill those obligations without the USPS.
    - bobbydroptables 7y ago
      You're thinking like a lawyer. I'm thinking like a problem solver. The legal requirement (which by the way is not an absolute requirement) to deliver my mail is useless if my mail isn't actually delivered. And I mean literally useless. Let that sink in. I don't care (at all, not even a little bit) what their obligation is on paper if they can't actually do the thing we need them to do. >When some people don't get their UPS/FedEx/etc, if you call up to complain, the answer is "Oh yeah, we don't service your address. Have a nice day." And if you call USPS, they're just going to jump straight to "it's lost. have a nice day." I don't see how that is better. Anyway, USPS absolutely does not deliver to every address. This is a myth that won't die for some reason. >Functioning governments really really need a way to physically deliver items to a person in a way that cannot be replaced by private carriers or email systems. Can you source this claim? What does my government need to mail me that can't be done by email? >This isn't about you getting your Amazon packages or your power bill. I don't use Amazon or get my power bill by snail mail. Not sure why you're bringing these up. They're irrelevant. >This is about the operational stability of basic government services. We might need a reliable parcel deliverer (ie, something other that USPS). >There are places in the US where UPS and FedEx do not deliver, and people live there And there are places where USPS doesn't deliver. At my house, on a regular basis for example, they don't deliver important parcels. Also many communities around the country and outside of the country. Email fixes basically all of this. >-- people who the US government is legally required to correspond with. Who they should be able to correspond with by email in most cases. In other cases they could contract with a more reliable carrier or have a pared down service for those remote area. In still more cases, the USPS doesn't service certain areas at all. >They cannot fulfill those obligations without the USPS. Nor can they fulfill them solely with USPS. We need to acknowledge that email is a faster, safer and more reliable source of communicating with most people. Its almost 2020.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        > You're thinking like a lawyer. I'm thinking like a problem solver. Yes, the reasons that the USPS is important are mainly legal reasons. Your personal frustrations with what I presume is commercial mail is not one of those reasons. You have alternatives for your commercial needs, and you are free to use them. The USPS exists because the government has needs that commercial carriers simply cannot fulfill; here's the first 3 examples I could think of: 1. A guarantee of service via direct control. The federal government directly controls the USPS board. Commercial services have no obligation to fulfill any of the government's needs, and could even be legally obligated by their fiduciary duty to deny those needs, even if they wanted to do otherwise. The needs of the government are not always profitable, often they're not. 2. Proper chain of custody. Email simply doesn't address this, and is notoriously awful at it. Commercial delivery services do this better than email, but do so voluntarily, and to their own liking (see #1). On the other hand, some USPS services like Registered Mail can be used for some types of classified documents. 3. Longstanding (and strong) legal precedent regarding its use. Mail has a ton of privilege over electronic communications. It also has privilege over commercial deliveries. As for the ability of email to reach everyone -- I think your views might be biased a bit by your experiences. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/22/some-americans-dont-use-the-internet-who-are-they/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/22/some-americ...

by tdhoot 7y ago

colejohnson66 7y ago

I meant, attempt as in finding the address. UPS and FedEx can just return a parcel because it’s too hard to reach.

bobbydroptables 7y ago
USPS regularly fails to deliver important mail to me. Like it straight up doesn't show up. Never accounted for or mentioned. Almost all of these important mailings would be handled faster, safer, more reliably and more eco friendly online.
- kube-system 7y ago
  While every carrier makes mistakes, the difference is that the USPS is legally required to deliver to you. When you don't get your USPS mail, it is a mistake, and they're required to do something about it. When some people don't get their UPS/FedEx/etc, if you call up to complain, the answer is "Oh yeah, we don't service your address. Have a nice day." Functioning governments really really need a way to physically deliver items to a person in a way that cannot be replaced by private carriers or email systems. This isn't about you getting your Amazon packages or your power bill. This is about the operational stability of basic government services. There are places in the US where UPS and FedEx do not deliver, and people live there -- people who the US government is legally required to correspond with. They cannot fulfill those obligations without the USPS.
  - bobbydroptables 7y ago
    You're thinking like a lawyer. I'm thinking like a problem solver. The legal requirement (which by the way is not an absolute requirement) to deliver my mail is useless if my mail isn't actually delivered. And I mean literally useless. Let that sink in. I don't care (at all, not even a little bit) what their obligation is on paper if they can't actually do the thing we need them to do. >When some people don't get their UPS/FedEx/etc, if you call up to complain, the answer is "Oh yeah, we don't service your address. Have a nice day." And if you call USPS, they're just going to jump straight to "it's lost. have a nice day." I don't see how that is better. Anyway, USPS absolutely does not deliver to every address. This is a myth that won't die for some reason. >Functioning governments really really need a way to physically deliver items to a person in a way that cannot be replaced by private carriers or email systems. Can you source this claim? What does my government need to mail me that can't be done by email? >This isn't about you getting your Amazon packages or your power bill. I don't use Amazon or get my power bill by snail mail. Not sure why you're bringing these up. They're irrelevant. >This is about the operational stability of basic government services. We might need a reliable parcel deliverer (ie, something other that USPS). >There are places in the US where UPS and FedEx do not deliver, and people live there And there are places where USPS doesn't deliver. At my house, on a regular basis for example, they don't deliver important parcels. Also many communities around the country and outside of the country. Email fixes basically all of this. >-- people who the US government is legally required to correspond with. Who they should be able to correspond with by email in most cases. In other cases they could contract with a more reliable carrier or have a pared down service for those remote area. In still more cases, the USPS doesn't service certain areas at all. >They cannot fulfill those obligations without the USPS. Nor can they fulfill them solely with USPS. We need to acknowledge that email is a faster, safer and more reliable source of communicating with most people. Its almost 2020.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      > You're thinking like a lawyer. I'm thinking like a problem solver. Yes, the reasons that the USPS is important are mainly legal reasons. Your personal frustrations with what I presume is commercial mail is not one of those reasons. You have alternatives for your commercial needs, and you are free to use them. The USPS exists because the government has needs that commercial carriers simply cannot fulfill; here's the first 3 examples I could think of: 1. A guarantee of service via direct control. The federal government directly controls the USPS board. Commercial services have no obligation to fulfill any of the government's needs, and could even be legally obligated by their fiduciary duty to deny those needs, even if they wanted to do otherwise. The needs of the government are not always profitable, often they're not. 2. Proper chain of custody. Email simply doesn't address this, and is notoriously awful at it. Commercial delivery services do this better than email, but do so voluntarily, and to their own liking (see #1). On the other hand, some USPS services like Registered Mail can be used for some types of classified documents. 3. Longstanding (and strong) legal precedent regarding its use. Mail has a ton of privilege over electronic communications. It also has privilege over commercial deliveries. As for the ability of email to reach everyone -- I think your views might be biased a bit by your experiences. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/22/some-americans-dont-use-the-internet-who-are-they/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/22/some-americ...