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> instead of complaining about surveillance in intelligence, which likely doesn't relate to you, why not complain about "normal" civil liberties in a criminal l

> instead of complaining about surveillance in intelligence, which likely doesn't relate to you, why not complain about "normal" civil liberties in a criminal law context Because some of us believe privacy to be a human right and aren't willing to accept violations of other's rights even if we might happen to benefit from it in the short term? Also, it absolutely does apply to us. The biggest revelation of Snowden's leaks was that the NSA was collecting data on all of us, not just people for whom they had probable cause. Just because that data hasn't been used against you or me yet doesn't mean it never will.

no_opinions 7y ago
There isn't a choice but to bulk collect and map reduce. It's a technical limitation - no one can predict the future. > Just because that data hasn't been used against you or me yet doesn't mean it never will. What do you mean? For what reason would it happen? What would be the consequence? Also, the issue of foreign countries spying hasn't been addressed. They don't collect data and do bad stuff to us? Do they have strict checks and balances to respect Americans? Are they these distinguished moralists that we should let our guard down against? Finally, no one has said a single specific thing about improving privacy for Americans. How specifically does it need to be improved? Nobody objected to making more narrowly tailored / less invasive procedures for Americans. Why not point out a problem - assuming those complaining even have one? - and suggest an improvement? But why throw the baby out with the bathwater and say all bulk information gathering is bad in itself? If there is something to be addressed, don't you think it'd be better to just improve that one area?