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I hope it is as solid as you say, because an overturned conviction will pretty much guarantee Trump 2020. A bunch of testimonies sounds convincing, but that de

by yters 7y ago

I hope it is as solid as you say, because an overturned conviction will pretty much guarantee Trump 2020. A bunch of testimonies sounds convincing, but that depends on whom the people are and what they exactly observed. E.g. why would the ambassador to the UK know what Trump said to Ukraine? I personally am still not getting a solid feeling from all this.

davidw 7y ago
Sorry, I edited it. Ambassador to the EU, Sondland. He was on various phone calls. You'd really want to go read and review some of this. There are some decent summaries like https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/10/case-impeachment/?arc404=true https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/10/case-impe... This is no 'conviction'. He has been impeached, and that's forever, as with Clinton. More likely than not, he will not be removed from office. No one really knows what the political consequences are, but the people running the investigation felt compelled to act since what he was doing represents a clear and present threat to free and fair elections.
- yters 7y ago
  Hmm, reading your linked article makes it seem even weirder. The whole point of impeachment is to convict and imprison. The best way to do that is to get a really solid case. Even more so if the Dems really think Trump is a threat to our country, and shouldn't run again, they should build a rock solid case against Trump that ensures he ends up in jail. Trump cannot be president from a jail cell. However, as the article says, the Dems are rushing the impeachment process, which as you say will most likely not remove Trump from office (nor imprison). So, I really don't understand what is the point of this whole thing. How does Trump's behavior present a threat to free and fair elections, and how does this impeachment stop the threat? Trump may find out Biden's son is doing illegal activities, or that Russia wasn't as meddlesome as supposed, and while that may influence the election, it is unclear to me how learning such information is in itself a bad thing for our system of government, i.e. a threat to free and fair elections. And the very implication of the articles of impeachment, that Trump could gain something of value from Ukraine, has the implication that what Trump is seeking may actually be correct. In which case, Trump's requests certainly should be followed through by the Ukraine minister. This whole thing makes less and less sense the more I dig into it, and I understand even more why all the news articles are so light on details.

by yters 7y ago

davidw 7y ago

Sorry, I edited it. Ambassador to the EU, Sondland. He was on various phone calls. You'd really want to go read and review some of this. There are some decent summaries like https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/10/case-impeachment/?arc404=true https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/10/case-impe... This is no 'conviction'. He has been impeached, and that's forever, as with Clinton. More likely than not, he will not be removed from office. No one really knows what the political consequences are, but the people running the investigation felt compelled to act since what he was doing represents a clear and present threat to free and fair elections.

yters 7y ago
Hmm, reading your linked article makes it seem even weirder. The whole point of impeachment is to convict and imprison. The best way to do that is to get a really solid case. Even more so if the Dems really think Trump is a threat to our country, and shouldn't run again, they should build a rock solid case against Trump that ensures he ends up in jail. Trump cannot be president from a jail cell. However, as the article says, the Dems are rushing the impeachment process, which as you say will most likely not remove Trump from office (nor imprison). So, I really don't understand what is the point of this whole thing. How does Trump's behavior present a threat to free and fair elections, and how does this impeachment stop the threat? Trump may find out Biden's son is doing illegal activities, or that Russia wasn't as meddlesome as supposed, and while that may influence the election, it is unclear to me how learning such information is in itself a bad thing for our system of government, i.e. a threat to free and fair elections. And the very implication of the articles of impeachment, that Trump could gain something of value from Ukraine, has the implication that what Trump is seeking may actually be correct. In which case, Trump's requests certainly should be followed through by the Ukraine minister. This whole thing makes less and less sense the more I dig into it, and I understand even more why all the news articles are so light on details.