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I read the DOJ link and it just states “intentional damage to a protected computer.” If he had accidentally written sloppy code that happened to break periodic

I read the DOJ link and it just states “intentional damage to a protected computer.” If he had accidentally written sloppy code that happened to break periodically would that have been illegal? I don’t fully understand what law he broke and how such a law would not also apply to the seemingly infinite cases of built in obsolescence.

tc313 7y ago
> If he had accidentally written sloppy code The damage was intentional (i.e., not an accident).
- hurricanetc 7y ago
  Right. In this case he plead guilty and admitted to having done it. I am just curious as to which specific laws he broke and whether it is possible to inadvertently break these laws by being a horrible programmer. If he had intentionally created a spaghetti code mess that just happened to break from time to time would that be different? I assume intention is difficult to prove in court but I am not an attorney.
  - elcomet 7y ago
    > If he had intentionally created a spaghetti code mess that just happened to break from time to time would that be different ? Clearly, yes. Here Siemens decided to go to court because it was obviously malicious code. With a spaghetti mess they would just have hired someone else to clean it.
  - pc86 7y ago
    > I am just curious as to which specific laws he broke 18 USC 1030, or: > > intentional damage to a protected computer
henvic 7y ago
Of course if he just wrote bad spaghetti code with no boundaries, no tests, and that breaks everything from time to time, he'd have locked in the company, make other developer's experience a nightmare, and so on and get away with it. I think this might explain a few things I have seen or heard about in my life.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  well only if it was password protected bad spaghetti code, otherwise they would have had a better developer look at the spaghetti and unravel it. But he wouldn't have gotten any jail time.
  - henvic 7y ago
    I'm thinking more about a 'soft lock-in' situation: the developer writes bad code, but not as bad that you need to start over or stop using it. Just bad enough that only they will understand it and other people who try to contribute will get mad and waste a lot of time and effort to deal with it, so in the end, the bad developer continues writing their shitty code because no one else wants to get involved (and there are plenty of opportunities elsewhere).
deusofnull 7y ago
Im curious about that too. If you were a skilled programmer who studied common bugs, you could introduce those bugs intentionally but with plausible deniability if caught. Then again, in a smaller system that would be easier to detect. But in a multi page web app or something with a big back end, def could slip those in

tc313 7y ago

> If he had accidentally written sloppy code The damage was intentional (i.e., not an accident).

hurricanetc 7y ago
Right. In this case he plead guilty and admitted to having done it. I am just curious as to which specific laws he broke and whether it is possible to inadvertently break these laws by being a horrible programmer. If he had intentionally created a spaghetti code mess that just happened to break from time to time would that be different? I assume intention is difficult to prove in court but I am not an attorney.
- elcomet 7y ago
  > If he had intentionally created a spaghetti code mess that just happened to break from time to time would that be different ? Clearly, yes. Here Siemens decided to go to court because it was obviously malicious code. With a spaghetti mess they would just have hired someone else to clean it.
- pc86 7y ago
  > I am just curious as to which specific laws he broke 18 USC 1030, or: > > intentional damage to a protected computer

henvic 7y ago

Of course if he just wrote bad spaghetti code with no boundaries, no tests, and that breaks everything from time to time, he'd have locked in the company, make other developer's experience a nightmare, and so on and get away with it. I think this might explain a few things I have seen or heard about in my life.

bryanrasmussen 7y ago
well only if it was password protected bad spaghetti code, otherwise they would have had a better developer look at the spaghetti and unravel it. But he wouldn't have gotten any jail time.
- henvic 7y ago
  I'm thinking more about a 'soft lock-in' situation: the developer writes bad code, but not as bad that you need to start over or stop using it. Just bad enough that only they will understand it and other people who try to contribute will get mad and waste a lot of time and effort to deal with it, so in the end, the bad developer continues writing their shitty code because no one else wants to get involved (and there are plenty of opportunities elsewhere).

deusofnull 7y ago

Im curious about that too. If you were a skilled programmer who studied common bugs, you could introduce those bugs intentionally but with plausible deniability if caught. Then again, in a smaller system that would be easier to detect. But in a multi page web app or something with a big back end, def could slip those in