5 ms·

Shows the importance of code reviews. I wonder why this is illegal but it's legal for hardware to deny service or even break stuff when they detect you're usin

Shows the importance of code reviews. I wonder why this is illegal but it's legal for hardware to deny service or even break stuff when they detect you're using something they don't like (I'm referring to printers, but I also remember a case where a microcontroller would try to brick something when it detected a counterfeit cable).

csense 7y ago
It's probably covered in line 3,781 of the EULA for the printer's firmware.
- StuffedParrot 7y ago
  ...which are definitely enforceable right? I’m trying to remember why we put up with them as a society.
  - lostgame 7y ago
    Because we have no effective replacement yet. Common sense, unfortunately, doesn't work for everyone.
- xadhominemx 7y ago
  Historically it wasn’t written down anywhere, but printer companies lost some lawsuits so now it’s actually written on the outside of the box.
elldoubleyew 7y ago
What was the case of the microcontroller detecting the counterfeit cable? I don't think I've ever heard of this.
- dnautics 7y ago
  Network switches do something like this iirc.
- sjruckle 7y ago
  Probably referring to FTDI-Gate, which is where FTDI shipped a driver that bricked counterfeit usb-serial converters.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  I am not sure about a case with cables. But there was a semi famous case of FTDI USB drivers purposefully bricking fake USB counterfeit chips. It was not that uncommon if you bought a cheap USB to serial or USB to TTL dongle online.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  iPhones do this for the charging cable. They don’t brick as such, they just don’t charge. Sooner or later that gives you a brick.
  - manicdee 7y ago
    I would prefer that cheap “charging” cables not turn into house fires thank you.
- orev 7y ago
  APC does this on UPSes. It’s an extremely bad practice that drives people crazy. They use a standard connector, like serial, RJ45, or USB, but with a non-standard pinout and give you a custom cable. God help you if you throw that cable in a box with other standard cables. And if you plug a standard cable into this non-standard port, the UPS panics and completely shuts down, including anything you have connected to it. APC devices are generally pretty good, except for this infuriating and dangerous “feature”. It’s almost 2020, and vendors still have this ridiculous idea that they can lock you into their proprietary ecosystem by doing stuff like this.
  - bashinator 7y ago
    I actually know why this is a thing! Originally, APC UPS's used RTS/CTS flow control on the RS-232 connector for communication with the host PC. They wanted to maintain this compatibility (which used a nonstandard wiring) when they later added the Smart-UPS protocol. That said, there's absolutely zero reason to keep maintaining this ancient and dangerous option.
  - oakwhiz 7y ago
    I think they call this cable an RJ50 cable, although I'm not sure if it's the same one that you're referring to.
roenxi 7y ago
> the logic bombs Tinley surreptitiously planted into his projects caused them to malfunction after a certain preset amount of time Probably the timed aspect of it is the issue. Selling something that purposefully breaks in that way is malicious. Unless he comes up with a truly fantastic excuse but it doesn't sound like he did.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  I think the intent to damage the systems is the issue, along with the fact that he confessed.
- trhway 7y ago
  >Probably the timed aspect of it is the issue. Selling something that purposefully breaks in that way is malicious. Overflow of like milliseconds counter would be just the thing. After all a lot of software did this trick with the 2 digit year counter in the 20th century guaranteeing that massive upgrade and contractor y2k call. And the UNIX 32 bit seconds counter comes to mind too - the guys i guess were planning long-term for a very plush retirement.
MertsA 7y ago
>I also remember a case where a microcontroller would try to brick something when it detected a counterfeit cable You might be thinking of the big FTDI scandal where they published a driver update for their chips that would attempt to detect a counterfeit FTDI chip and if it found one it would reconfigure the counterfeit chip with a bogus VID and PID thus rendering it essentially bricked. Bricking the cables using counterfeit chips wasn't the worst of it though, some of the chips in question were integrated into expensive equipment and rather than the manufacturer trying to use counterfeit FTDI chips they very well might be the victim being unwittingly sold counterfeits while paying the fraudster full price.
- rustybolt 7y ago
  Yes, I was thinking of FTDI :)
manicdee 7y ago
And coffee pods!
perl4ever 7y ago
Isn't it pretty common for a laptop to complain about a non-OEM power supply these days? Not to mention batteries, probably.

csense 7y ago

It's probably covered in line 3,781 of the EULA for the printer's firmware.

StuffedParrot 7y ago
...which are definitely enforceable right? I’m trying to remember why we put up with them as a society.
- lostgame 7y ago
  Because we have no effective replacement yet. Common sense, unfortunately, doesn't work for everyone.
xadhominemx 7y ago
Historically it wasn’t written down anywhere, but printer companies lost some lawsuits so now it’s actually written on the outside of the box.

elldoubleyew 7y ago

What was the case of the microcontroller detecting the counterfeit cable? I don't think I've ever heard of this.

dnautics 7y ago
Network switches do something like this iirc.
sjruckle 7y ago
Probably referring to FTDI-Gate, which is where FTDI shipped a driver that bricked counterfeit usb-serial converters.
DoingIsLearning 7y ago
I am not sure about a case with cables. But there was a semi famous case of FTDI USB drivers purposefully bricking fake USB counterfeit chips. It was not that uncommon if you bought a cheap USB to serial or USB to TTL dongle online.
lostlogin 7y ago
iPhones do this for the charging cable. They don’t brick as such, they just don’t charge. Sooner or later that gives you a brick.
- manicdee 7y ago
  I would prefer that cheap “charging” cables not turn into house fires thank you.
orev 7y ago
APC does this on UPSes. It’s an extremely bad practice that drives people crazy. They use a standard connector, like serial, RJ45, or USB, but with a non-standard pinout and give you a custom cable. God help you if you throw that cable in a box with other standard cables. And if you plug a standard cable into this non-standard port, the UPS panics and completely shuts down, including anything you have connected to it. APC devices are generally pretty good, except for this infuriating and dangerous “feature”. It’s almost 2020, and vendors still have this ridiculous idea that they can lock you into their proprietary ecosystem by doing stuff like this.
- bashinator 7y ago
  I actually know why this is a thing! Originally, APC UPS's used RTS/CTS flow control on the RS-232 connector for communication with the host PC. They wanted to maintain this compatibility (which used a nonstandard wiring) when they later added the Smart-UPS protocol. That said, there's absolutely zero reason to keep maintaining this ancient and dangerous option.
- oakwhiz 7y ago
  I think they call this cable an RJ50 cable, although I'm not sure if it's the same one that you're referring to.

roenxi 7y ago

> the logic bombs Tinley surreptitiously planted into his projects caused them to malfunction after a certain preset amount of time Probably the timed aspect of it is the issue. Selling something that purposefully breaks in that way is malicious. Unless he comes up with a truly fantastic excuse but it doesn't sound like he did.

AmericanChopper 7y ago
I think the intent to damage the systems is the issue, along with the fact that he confessed.
trhway 7y ago
>Probably the timed aspect of it is the issue. Selling something that purposefully breaks in that way is malicious. Overflow of like milliseconds counter would be just the thing. After all a lot of software did this trick with the 2 digit year counter in the 20th century guaranteeing that massive upgrade and contractor y2k call. And the UNIX 32 bit seconds counter comes to mind too - the guys i guess were planning long-term for a very plush retirement.

MertsA 7y ago

>I also remember a case where a microcontroller would try to brick something when it detected a counterfeit cable You might be thinking of the big FTDI scandal where they published a driver update for their chips that would attempt to detect a counterfeit FTDI chip and if it found one it would reconfigure the counterfeit chip with a bogus VID and PID thus rendering it essentially bricked. Bricking the cables using counterfeit chips wasn't the worst of it though, some of the chips in question were integrated into expensive equipment and rather than the manufacturer trying to use counterfeit FTDI chips they very well might be the victim being unwittingly sold counterfeits while paying the fraudster full price.

rustybolt 7y ago
Yes, I was thinking of FTDI :)

manicdee 7y ago

And coffee pods!

perl4ever 7y ago

Isn't it pretty common for a laptop to complain about a non-OEM power supply these days? Not to mention batteries, probably.