4 ms·

> lawyers are being killed in the streets I mean... that happened once.

by rocgf 7y ago

brnt 7y ago
Derk Wiersum, Philippe Schol recently. I lost track of the number of recusations. The professional club has openend a hotline for judges and laywers in case of threats (which largely go unreported in the media for obvious reasons) [1]. This all is unprecedented. [1] https://www.advocatenorde.nl/nieuws/contactpunt-beroepsgroepen-ingesteld-voor-advocaten-en-rechters https://www.advocatenorde.nl/nieuws/contactpunt-beroepsgroep...
- rocgf 7y ago
  I stand somewhat corrected. There was indeed just one lawyer killed in the, Derk, while Philippe was only shot in the leg. Either way, this is terrifying and would have never expected this in the Netherlands.
  - brnt 7y ago
    Most liquidations (attempts) are indeed other criminals, so far, but also that number is rising. A somewhat dated (2016) timeline from Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool [1]. The scary thing is that the Netherlands basically doesnt have major crimes units. There a good forensics bureau, which is also under heavy strain [2], and a small department at the National Police. That makes is trivial for hardened criminals to stay under the radar: there is (almost) no radar. [1] https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/tijdlijn-de-vete-in-de-marokkaans-amsterdamse-onderwereld~b7ba8f56/ https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/tijdlijn-de-vete-in-de-marokkaa... [2] https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/07/13/nfi-onderzocht-wegens-verdenking-van-misstanden-a1610022 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/07/13/nfi-onderzocht-wegens-v...
    - rocgf 7y ago
      This saddens me deeply. The Netherlands is my favorite country. Is this something that concerns people around you? Is it like a major shock to everybody?
      - brnt 7y ago
        Unfortunately, I think a less favorable Dutch trait lies at the root for a lack of interest in such matters: people believe so strongly this is a nice and 'civilized' place, most people refuse to even entertain the idea anything could be seriously out of whack in 'paradise'. There is a sort of reinforcing feedback loop to preferring to pretend all is well: to most people things of course are usually well and if everyone thinks all is well most people will behave well. But if you're one of the unlucky ones affected by such issues, you'll find it very difficult to convince people, after all, all is well.
        rocgf 7y ago
        Thank you for the comment. To be fair, the Netherlands is as close to paradise as I can imagine, as long as the definition of paradise is not one of palm trees and warm weather. Even though I am outraged by what is happening, I can't help but feel that something is happening to tackle this. The Netherlands is a very sane place, after all, and I'd like to think that whoever can do something about this is doing something about it.
        brnt 7y ago
        I'm afraid I don't share your optimism. The Ministry of Justice is widely reported to be in disarray, a fiefdom with warring factions out of control, all the while neoliberalist governments have been gutting it, as have the Police (hence the cancellation of the Major Crimes unit in Amsterdam, which was tiny to begin with) and the prosecutors office, and legal assistance and general availability of the judiciary to citizens (closure of courthouses). Things are on course to become worse, at this time. Carefully some people start to suggest we need Italian-style investments to be able to track, uncover and handle this level and amount of crime, but we are nowhere near understanding or funding that. There is just no expertise, and no(t much) electoral pressure to fund it. Half of our 'sanity' is simply looking away from problems and hoping they pass of their own accord. That works sometimes, but here I'm not getting my hopes up.
        rocgf 7y ago

> lawyers are being killed in the streets I mean... that happened once.

by rocgf 7y ago

> lawyers are being killed in the streets I mean... that happened once.

brnt 7y ago

Derk Wiersum, Philippe Schol recently. I lost track of the number of recusations. The professional club has openend a hotline for judges and laywers in case of threats (which largely go unreported in the media for obvious reasons) [1]. This all is unprecedented. [1] https://www.advocatenorde.nl/nieuws/contactpunt-beroepsgroepen-ingesteld-voor-advocaten-en-rechters https://www.advocatenorde.nl/nieuws/contactpunt-beroepsgroep...

rocgf 7y ago
I stand somewhat corrected. There was indeed just one lawyer killed in the, Derk, while Philippe was only shot in the leg. Either way, this is terrifying and would have never expected this in the Netherlands.
- brnt 7y ago
  Most liquidations (attempts) are indeed other criminals, so far, but also that number is rising. A somewhat dated (2016) timeline from Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool [1]. The scary thing is that the Netherlands basically doesnt have major crimes units. There a good forensics bureau, which is also under heavy strain [2], and a small department at the National Police. That makes is trivial for hardened criminals to stay under the radar: there is (almost) no radar. [1] https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/tijdlijn-de-vete-in-de-marokkaans-amsterdamse-onderwereld~b7ba8f56/ https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/tijdlijn-de-vete-in-de-marokkaa... [2] https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/07/13/nfi-onderzocht-wegens-verdenking-van-misstanden-a1610022 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/07/13/nfi-onderzocht-wegens-v...
  - rocgf 7y ago
    This saddens me deeply. The Netherlands is my favorite country. Is this something that concerns people around you? Is it like a major shock to everybody?
    - brnt 7y ago
      Unfortunately, I think a less favorable Dutch trait lies at the root for a lack of interest in such matters: people believe so strongly this is a nice and 'civilized' place, most people refuse to even entertain the idea anything could be seriously out of whack in 'paradise'. There is a sort of reinforcing feedback loop to preferring to pretend all is well: to most people things of course are usually well and if everyone thinks all is well most people will behave well. But if you're one of the unlucky ones affected by such issues, you'll find it very difficult to convince people, after all, all is well.
      - rocgf 7y ago
        Thank you for the comment. To be fair, the Netherlands is as close to paradise as I can imagine, as long as the definition of paradise is not one of palm trees and warm weather. Even though I am outraged by what is happening, I can't help but feel that something is happening to tackle this. The Netherlands is a very sane place, after all, and I'd like to think that whoever can do something about this is doing something about it.
        brnt 7y ago
        I'm afraid I don't share your optimism. The Ministry of Justice is widely reported to be in disarray, a fiefdom with warring factions out of control, all the while neoliberalist governments have been gutting it, as have the Police (hence the cancellation of the Major Crimes unit in Amsterdam, which was tiny to begin with) and the prosecutors office, and legal assistance and general availability of the judiciary to citizens (closure of courthouses). Things are on course to become worse, at this time. Carefully some people start to suggest we need Italian-style investments to be able to track, uncover and handle this level and amount of crime, but we are nowhere near understanding or funding that. There is just no expertise, and no(t much) electoral pressure to fund it. Half of our 'sanity' is simply looking away from problems and hoping they pass of their own accord. That works sometimes, but here I'm not getting my hopes up.
        rocgf 7y ago