5 ms·

I hope XTC gets legalized in the Netherlands as soon as possible. One of the ruling parties (D66) is currently investigating a proposal to do so. We are a very

I hope XTC gets legalized in the Netherlands as soon as possible. One of the ruling parties (D66) is currently investigating a proposal to do so. We are a very large producer (the largest?) and the stuff is not harmful enough to warrant the prohibition and all of the crime it entails.

rbinv 7y ago
MDMA can be incredibly harmful, especially when used frequently.
- voldacar 7y ago
  source please sir
  - YawningAngel 7y ago
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-1791-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-1791-0
    - MrAlex94 7y ago
      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/482306 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... “Our findings suggest that even a first low cumulative dose of Ecstasy is associated with decline in verbal memory. Although the performance of the group of incident Ecstasy users is still within the normal range and the immediate clinical relevance of the observed deficits is limited, long-term negative consequences cannot be excluded.“ I’m curious to see if there are, or have been any studies in the long term effects?
- qtplatypus 7y ago
  So can alcohol and smoking.
  - drcross 7y ago
    So can cheeseburgers.
    - dkersten 7y ago
      And sugar.
      - pennaMan 7y ago
        And sunlight.
        rocgf 7y ago
        And water. Especially when on MDMA.
        swarnie_ 7y ago
        Every party needs that one guys whos job it to stop everyone else accidentally drowning themselves.
- MrAlex94 7y ago
  It needs to be used incredibly frequently and at very high doses. “Some people taking MDMA have died following severe overheating and other medical emergencies. Deaths following the use of MDMA usually involve high doses and/or the simultaneous use of other substances. MDMA overdoses and drug combinations can also cause serotonin syndrome, which can be fatal. MDMA-associated deaths may alternatively involve overcompensation of the risk of dehydration by drinking much too much water, which coupled with the fact that MDMA may stop a person from urinating, causing fatally low concentrations of salt.” Source: https://drugscience.org.uk/drug-information/mdma/ https://drugscience.org.uk/drug-information/mdma/ This website contains a lot of information and is well sourced. All in all, compared to other drugs MDMA is quite safe when taken properly and in proper doses. A lot of deaths come from what people think is MDMA but actually isn’t.
- antihero 7y ago
  Only with poor education or poor quality drugs.
emptyfile 7y ago
Oh cmon. I live in Europe and I'm all for legalizing drugs, all drugs, but only a few popular drugs come to my mind which are more harmful then MDMA... Americans can talk about how harmful fake MDMA is and how you can manage risk better if it's legal. But anyone living in Europe, where there's loads of high quality stuff selling for a few euros per dose, and socialising with other users can easily see the harm it does.
- rocgf 7y ago
  As far as drugs go, legal and illegal, MDMA is fairly safe, unless abused. But I think that's irrelevant when it comes to legalizing or decriminalizing. It doesn't really matter how bad it is for you since, at the moment, nothing is stopping you from buying and swallowing as much as you can. The ones who will do harm with it when legalized are the same ones who do it now. The legality of it does not do anything to stop harm from being done.
- golergka 7y ago
  I think you're confusing MDMA and ecstasy. Most non-users think they're the same thing, when, in reality, they're like tea and Nestea: MDMA is the main component of XTC pills, but they often also have MDA, 2CB, amphetamine, methamphetamine, mephedrone and other components inside, which break through habitual users tolerance, but also significantly raise neurotoxicity and hangover. Pure crystal MDMA is much less toxic and often can surprise someone who used pills before by an almost complete lack of suicide Tuesday syndrome.
  - justsomecoder 7y ago
    Yes, although many ecstacy pills tested in the Netherlands consistently show that they have very high purity in terms of the MDMA content and almost never contain the other things you mentioned bar some occassional exceptions (like the PMMA containing pills, which is ofcourse very dangerous).
- tpm 7y ago
  So can you describe the harm you see it does? I don't see it around me, having friends who have done it a lot when younger. What I do see is MDMA being more and more accepted as a therapeutic tool, given further studies will confirm what the research has told us until now.

rbinv 7y ago

MDMA can be incredibly harmful, especially when used frequently.

voldacar 7y ago
source please sir
- YawningAngel 7y ago
  https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-1791-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-1791-0
  - MrAlex94 7y ago
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/482306 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... “Our findings suggest that even a first low cumulative dose of Ecstasy is associated with decline in verbal memory. Although the performance of the group of incident Ecstasy users is still within the normal range and the immediate clinical relevance of the observed deficits is limited, long-term negative consequences cannot be excluded.“ I’m curious to see if there are, or have been any studies in the long term effects?
qtplatypus 7y ago
So can alcohol and smoking.
- drcross 7y ago
  So can cheeseburgers.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    And sugar.
    - pennaMan 7y ago
      And sunlight.
      - rocgf 7y ago
        And water. Especially when on MDMA.
        swarnie_ 7y ago
        Every party needs that one guys whos job it to stop everyone else accidentally drowning themselves.
MrAlex94 7y ago
It needs to be used incredibly frequently and at very high doses. “Some people taking MDMA have died following severe overheating and other medical emergencies. Deaths following the use of MDMA usually involve high doses and/or the simultaneous use of other substances. MDMA overdoses and drug combinations can also cause serotonin syndrome, which can be fatal. MDMA-associated deaths may alternatively involve overcompensation of the risk of dehydration by drinking much too much water, which coupled with the fact that MDMA may stop a person from urinating, causing fatally low concentrations of salt.” Source: https://drugscience.org.uk/drug-information/mdma/ https://drugscience.org.uk/drug-information/mdma/ This website contains a lot of information and is well sourced. All in all, compared to other drugs MDMA is quite safe when taken properly and in proper doses. A lot of deaths come from what people think is MDMA but actually isn’t.
antihero 7y ago
Only with poor education or poor quality drugs.

emptyfile 7y ago

Oh cmon. I live in Europe and I'm all for legalizing drugs, all drugs, but only a few popular drugs come to my mind which are more harmful then MDMA... Americans can talk about how harmful fake MDMA is and how you can manage risk better if it's legal. But anyone living in Europe, where there's loads of high quality stuff selling for a few euros per dose, and socialising with other users can easily see the harm it does.

rocgf 7y ago
As far as drugs go, legal and illegal, MDMA is fairly safe, unless abused. But I think that's irrelevant when it comes to legalizing or decriminalizing. It doesn't really matter how bad it is for you since, at the moment, nothing is stopping you from buying and swallowing as much as you can. The ones who will do harm with it when legalized are the same ones who do it now. The legality of it does not do anything to stop harm from being done.
golergka 7y ago
I think you're confusing MDMA and ecstasy. Most non-users think they're the same thing, when, in reality, they're like tea and Nestea: MDMA is the main component of XTC pills, but they often also have MDA, 2CB, amphetamine, methamphetamine, mephedrone and other components inside, which break through habitual users tolerance, but also significantly raise neurotoxicity and hangover. Pure crystal MDMA is much less toxic and often can surprise someone who used pills before by an almost complete lack of suicide Tuesday syndrome.
- justsomecoder 7y ago
  Yes, although many ecstacy pills tested in the Netherlands consistently show that they have very high purity in terms of the MDMA content and almost never contain the other things you mentioned bar some occassional exceptions (like the PMMA containing pills, which is ofcourse very dangerous).
tpm 7y ago
So can you describe the harm you see it does? I don't see it around me, having friends who have done it a lot when younger. What I do see is MDMA being more and more accepted as a therapeutic tool, given further studies will confirm what the research has told us until now.