4 ms·

Donald Trump impeached for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress

20 points by rahuldottech 7y ago

rahuldottech 7y ago
> Okay for everyone wondering what impeachment is vs a removal of office. > Impeachment is like charging you with a crime. So the House of Representatives charged Trump with abuse of power & obstruction of congress. >Removal of office comes about when the House of Representatives vote by a majority to impeach on each charge (known as an Article of Impeachment), that goes to the Senate, and then by a 2/3 majority (67 Senators) in the Senate to vote to convict, and only then is the President is finally removed from office. > In other words, impeachment is like being charged by the DA for manslaughter, removal of office is when the jury decides you're guilty of manslaughter. The DA is the House, and the jury is the Senate in this analogy.
- cmurf 7y ago
  Conviction requires 2/3rds of the senators present. Removal from office is a possible punishment, as is disqualification to hold office. Either of those requires a simple majority vote, following conviction. For impeachments, the Senate is a court, they aren't jurors, but triers of law and fact, per Rehnquist. http://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-senators-in-an-impeachment-trial-that-they-were-not-jurors-128984 http://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-sen...
  - JDiculous 7y ago
    Since the Senate has a Republican majority and every single Republican voted against impeachment, does this mean that removal from office is basically not happening?
    - ToFab123 7y ago
      yes that's what it mean.
    - cmurf 7y ago
      That's the conventional wisdom. But Senators aren't as partisan. They thrive on plausible deniability. They're unlikely to overrule Roberts, who will preside, rule on motions, witnesses, subpoenas. Even one or two defectors can turn it into a serious trial. There are witnesses and materials being suppressed, if those are subpoenaed, are they significant and relevant? Do they get the public more involved? What if those subpoenas are refused by the president, as he is with House subpoenas? Who blinks? But we've never seen a contentious Senate impeachment trial. The conventional wisdom, is really speculation. It's not certain. Anyone who claims to know what will happen, doesn't know anything. The more Republican senators insist this is pointless because the outcome is certain, the more it tells me how scared they are about having to make a decision. If they convict, decent chance they get primaried. If they aquit, they risk losing their general election. And they have some sense history books yet to be written are watching. The Senate can't do anything until the articles are delivered by the House. And right now it looks like that may not happen immediately. That's incredibly unusual. The House wants some assurances of witnesses and documents being produced. They could sit on the articles and string this out for days. Or months.
    - jki275 7y ago
      The leader of the judiciary committee has already said he's not even inclined to call witnesses or hold a trial. The Senate isn't obligated to -- they can simply 51 votes and dismiss the whole thing if they want to, and that's what they've suggested they may do. There are certainly not 67 votes in favor of conviction and there's absolutely zero chance there will be. Indictments don't really mean shit beyond the fact someone wants a trial, and that's what an impeachment is. The Clinton impeachment was similar politically in that there was never a chance he would be removed from office.
IGotThroughIt 7y ago
Dems have shot themselves in the foot with this one. This whole process lacks credibility and voters will punish them as they did in the UK. Politicians need to start being in touch with what voters want. Right now a lot of time is being wasted on nonsense whereas it could have been used for more productive endeavors. What a charade. What a sham.
- JDiculous 7y ago
  Why have Dems "shot themselves in the foot"? Because you're a Trump supporter and don't like that he got impeached? You're going to have to elaborate a bit more if you're going to make such bold statements pretending to speak on behalf of all or even the majority of Americans.
- cmurf 7y ago
  Seems unlikely. In 2018 Democrats ran on the promise of holding Trump accountable, quite a few new seats obtained on the promise of impeachment. The House represents the people. The Senate represents land. The House should be partisan. That's their job. And why they're up for election every two years. The constitution requires senators to take an oath when sitting for impeachments. That oath includes one of impartiality. Two senators, including the majority leader, have announced they are expressly not impartial. The majority leader said they are working in total coordination with the defense's lawyers. And that it would be mutual assured destruction to have witnesses. A trial without witnesses, or documents, before a body on oath of impartiality, triers of law and fact. A sham you say?
  - chatmasta 7y ago
    The major difference between midterms and election (whether 2016 or 2020) is that Trump himself wasn’t on the ballot to drive turnout. In fact, it’s not unusual at all for midterms to swing away from the incumbent’s party, like they did in 2018. I don’t want to get too much into political speculation on HN, but Trump is a big turnout driver due to the enthusiasm of his base. If the democratic nominee comes from the current candidates, and something crazy doesn’t happen vis a vis a brokered convention or economic recession, I’d say Trump will probably be re-elected. It will be due primarily to that enthusiasm, but also to independents who may not like the guy, but are happy with the economy and scared of/angry at the Democratic Party. According to most oddsmakers, Trump is currently the favorite to win. Granted that may change when the Democrats select a candidate.

20 points by rahuldottech 7y ago

> Okay for everyone wondering what impeachment is vs a removal of office. > Impeachment is like charging you with a crime. So the House of Representatives charged Trump with abuse of power & obstruction of congress. >Removal of office comes about when the House of Representatives vote by a majority to impeach on each charge (known as an Article of Impeachment), that goes to the Senate, and then by a 2/3 majority (67 Senators) in the Senate to vote to convict, and only then is the President is finally removed from office. > In other words, impeachment is like being charged by the DA for manslaughter, removal of office is when the jury decides you're guilty of manslaughter. The DA is the House, and the jury is the Senate in this analogy.

cmurf 7y ago
Conviction requires 2/3rds of the senators present. Removal from office is a possible punishment, as is disqualification to hold office. Either of those requires a simple majority vote, following conviction. For impeachments, the Senate is a court, they aren't jurors, but triers of law and fact, per Rehnquist. http://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-senators-in-an-impeachment-trial-that-they-were-not-jurors-128984 http://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-sen...
- JDiculous 7y ago
  Since the Senate has a Republican majority and every single Republican voted against impeachment, does this mean that removal from office is basically not happening?
  - ToFab123 7y ago
    yes that's what it mean.
  - cmurf 7y ago
    That's the conventional wisdom. But Senators aren't as partisan. They thrive on plausible deniability. They're unlikely to overrule Roberts, who will preside, rule on motions, witnesses, subpoenas. Even one or two defectors can turn it into a serious trial. There are witnesses and materials being suppressed, if those are subpoenaed, are they significant and relevant? Do they get the public more involved? What if those subpoenas are refused by the president, as he is with House subpoenas? Who blinks? But we've never seen a contentious Senate impeachment trial. The conventional wisdom, is really speculation. It's not certain. Anyone who claims to know what will happen, doesn't know anything. The more Republican senators insist this is pointless because the outcome is certain, the more it tells me how scared they are about having to make a decision. If they convict, decent chance they get primaried. If they aquit, they risk losing their general election. And they have some sense history books yet to be written are watching. The Senate can't do anything until the articles are delivered by the House. And right now it looks like that may not happen immediately. That's incredibly unusual. The House wants some assurances of witnesses and documents being produced. They could sit on the articles and string this out for days. Or months.
  - jki275 7y ago
    The leader of the judiciary committee has already said he's not even inclined to call witnesses or hold a trial. The Senate isn't obligated to -- they can simply 51 votes and dismiss the whole thing if they want to, and that's what they've suggested they may do. There are certainly not 67 votes in favor of conviction and there's absolutely zero chance there will be. Indictments don't really mean shit beyond the fact someone wants a trial, and that's what an impeachment is. The Clinton impeachment was similar politically in that there was never a chance he would be removed from office.

IGotThroughIt 7y ago

Dems have shot themselves in the foot with this one. This whole process lacks credibility and voters will punish them as they did in the UK. Politicians need to start being in touch with what voters want. Right now a lot of time is being wasted on nonsense whereas it could have been used for more productive endeavors. What a charade. What a sham.

JDiculous 7y ago
Why have Dems "shot themselves in the foot"? Because you're a Trump supporter and don't like that he got impeached? You're going to have to elaborate a bit more if you're going to make such bold statements pretending to speak on behalf of all or even the majority of Americans.
cmurf 7y ago
Seems unlikely. In 2018 Democrats ran on the promise of holding Trump accountable, quite a few new seats obtained on the promise of impeachment. The House represents the people. The Senate represents land. The House should be partisan. That's their job. And why they're up for election every two years. The constitution requires senators to take an oath when sitting for impeachments. That oath includes one of impartiality. Two senators, including the majority leader, have announced they are expressly not impartial. The majority leader said they are working in total coordination with the defense's lawyers. And that it would be mutual assured destruction to have witnesses. A trial without witnesses, or documents, before a body on oath of impartiality, triers of law and fact. A sham you say?
- chatmasta 7y ago
  The major difference between midterms and election (whether 2016 or 2020) is that Trump himself wasn’t on the ballot to drive turnout. In fact, it’s not unusual at all for midterms to swing away from the incumbent’s party, like they did in 2018. I don’t want to get too much into political speculation on HN, but Trump is a big turnout driver due to the enthusiasm of his base. If the democratic nominee comes from the current candidates, and something crazy doesn’t happen vis a vis a brokered convention or economic recession, I’d say Trump will probably be re-elected. It will be due primarily to that enthusiasm, but also to independents who may not like the guy, but are happy with the economy and scared of/angry at the Democratic Party. According to most oddsmakers, Trump is currently the favorite to win. Granted that may change when the Democrats select a candidate.