6 ms·

I think the most unmentioned facet regarding prostitution is that for many men, prostitution may be the only way for them to obtain sex, which I feel is just as

I think the most unmentioned facet regarding prostitution is that for many men, prostitution may be the only way for them to obtain sex, which I feel is just as much of a "right" as is the right for women to obtain an abortion. No I don't believe taxpayers should be required to pay for prostitutes, nor for abortions. But the market for both should be decriminalized. Not only is this something that is morally right, though I'm sure feminists especially will not agree, I believe this is in society's best interest, too. There are more and more studies showing most men did not actually propagate throughout history, and this is also true with many other mammals. The alpha obtains a harem, and the rest fight over what's left (or die trying). I have a feeling that the institution of monogamy came about in almost all cultures simply to avoid the problems associated with large numbers of males, programmed by evolution to do one thing, unable to obtain it. Inexpensive and shameless prostitution might be an alternative as it seems monogamy is declining, and some version of polygamy becoming more normal with few men sharing many women (if you believe the online dating app stats and lots of anecdotes online).

lurquer 7y ago
Your fourth paragraph is insightful. Prostitution, however, worsens the situation. The detrimental aspect of harem-based societies is not bunches of horny men unable to get laid... rather, it's bunches of single men -- horny or not -- that are not part of a family, and who have no need to be productive. Prostitution lessens the desirability of men and decreases somewhat their desire to marry. This causes further declines in monogamy rates and hastens the societal damage you allude to.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  People like Andrew Yang are telling us that massive layoffs are coming anyway, because robots. Maybe you disapprove of lives of video-gaming and regular custom with prostitutes, but if it's inevitable maybe we should try to deal with it rather than grinding people up in our efforts to prevent it. Human lives can have meaning that is not related to work.
- scotty79 7y ago
  > it's bunches of single men ... that are not part of a family, and who have no need to be productive That's actually argument for prostitution. You have to earn money for prostitutes. Granted not as much as for the family but still. Also I think there's way less colateral damage for everybody if less desirable men can just buy what they crave directly instead of attempting to compete with better men over women that don't want less desirable men and if they settle for them they'll regret it.
elliekelly 7y ago
> I think the most unmentioned facet regarding prostitution is that for many men, prostitution may be the only way for them to obtain sex Andrew Gurza writes about this as a disabled person. Here’s one of his articles about it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disability-sex-workers_n_5ca21581e4b00ba6328062d8 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disability-sex-workers_n_5ca2...
taxicabjesus 7y ago
> and some version of polygamy becoming more normal Polygamy arises spontaneously in societies where lots of men get killed off by wars. As soon as the M/F ratio normalizes polygamy goes away. Fake-polygamy is like early Mormonism, where the proselytizers actively sought large numbers of women to rapidly increase the size of their group. Mormon polygamy mostly went away because of the numbers problem: it is unsustainable if you don't have a way to bring in extra girls or get rid of extra boys (the offshoot mormon cult in Colorado City sent boys away as soon as they hit 18 [2]). [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona#History - Dateline or some other news shows had stories about teenage boys getting expelled from Colorado city, so that the girls could be plural-wed. > with few men sharing many women (if you believe the online dating app stats and lots of anecdotes online). Some men get more action than others, but this is mostly because they've learned how to not be obnoxious [3] about their interests, and go after the women who also aren't so interested in a relationship, or are good at tricking women into thinking they're long term when their intentions are otherwise. [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17554503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17554503 Women generally are selective about who they get with, whereas men generally will get with whomever happens to be interested in them. With that said, many women don't get hordes of men lusting after them, and some men have learned how to mesmerize women into their bedroom, then move on to their next target without second thoughts. I posted previously about my friend who advertised on backpage for clients [0]. She was not full-service, yet was sort of traumatized by the experience anyways. She doesn't have problem with her catalogue of former boyfriends (entirely her choice), but she was bothered by the men who just wanted to pay for the privilege of putting their anatomy inside her anatomy without her being reciprocally interested. Then there was the stripper I saw a few times... The last time I saw her, she told of how she gotten beaten up by strip club patrons who'd followed her home. She didn't feel safe at home anymore [0]. She was okay with getting random men aroused, but wasn't interested in sex. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17810906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17810906 Offering prostitution as a service works for women who are flexible about who they'll get with; engaging prostitution as a client works for men who haven't figured out how to be interesting to women, or for men who are not interested in a relationship, or not capable of a relationship, or have other motivations (ex: I read about an Australian mom taking her disabled son for a monthly appointment with a sex worker). With all this talk about legalizing prostitution, I think it appropriate to point out that lots of women are engaged in legal prostitution already, it's usually just called "acting". Some women pretend they're interested in a man, but they're more interested in their wallet ('trophy girlfriend/wife'). The other common not-exactly-prostitution work for women is pornography. The main difference between pornography and prostitution is men in porn get paid a token amount too. I'm sure many of the online porn producers were set up by men who just wanted to increase the number of women they boink without having to pretend to be interested in a relationship. Some women do sex work because of economic pressure [1]. IMHO, a basic income of some sort would be an important part of any legalization of prostitution, so that the women who'd rather do anything else don't have to go into the sex industry to survive. [1] http://www.taxiwars.org/2012/03/day-12-working-girl.html http://www.taxiwars.org/2012/03/day-12-working-girl.html - this woman might not have had the ability to work in the US legally, on account of her immigration status, but we didn't actually talk beyond the formalities of her ride. I intend to write a blog post titled "the predicaments of girls and boys", but haven't gotten to it yet.
Noos 7y ago
No, it isn't the only way for many men to do so. The issue is that they don't want to put in the time or effort to be the kind of man that can, and they have radically unrealistic expectation of sex itself. No, you cannot bang a supermodel, but you can find a woman who loves you and will be with you. No, men don't have a right to sex, because it involves a woman surrendering herself; its not something innate to the man that is being denied. It's dark to make it so that women need to surrender themselves to strangers on demand for cash because men have a right to the act, and that's just part of it. Sex is really only healthy where there is mutual love and at least some level of commitment; without it there is a huge lack of protection for the woman and it becomes a banal experience for the man, because he cannot have love or intimacy from it, just the act that becomes more and more extreme over time precisely because its divorced from human sentiment. honestly i wish dang would ban these kinds of topics because we usually only get one side of them based on sort of an inhuman libertarianism; there's no "intellectual curiosity" about this, just sort of a repetition of a specific set of views with very little attempt to challenge or provide the unpopular side.
- golemiprague 7y ago
  on one hand feminists claim men and woman are exactly the same , on the other hand you say here that a woman having sex with a man is "surrendering herself". So which one it is, just so we can start the discussion on the same page. I don't know whether anybody have a right to anything, but what I do know is that the government enforce me to pay taxes to support a growing number of single mums who never had sex with me, they had sex with other people but from some reason I need to finance them instead of investing this money in my own children. So I wonder, if you can force me to pay for female sexual escapades and their spawns and the exciting guys they had sex with because I "didn't put the effort and have unrealistic expectations", why can't I have an agreed upon transaction, where i pay directly the woman who have sex with me? It seems that the effort I put into generating enough taxes is happily taken by all those women via the government and law enforcement, for that I am attractive enough. To be honest, I don't have much hope, today being an average white man who just go to work, share custody of his children and do all the regular duties is like being the worst criminal in the world, a person to be ridiculed and abused by all kind of interest groups. So I have learned the lesson, I just move my business and money to second world countries where the western feminist/racist/agist cancer didn't hit yet. Nobody is going to get my tax money if they don't want to give anything back, just extorting me and then spitting in my face. I'd rather give my money to south east asian hookers for having a drink with me than to taxes falling into the hands of all those blood sucking critters. I vote for the most extreme right wing parties I can, not because I support their agenda but in spite, because I feel like I am being screwed up by everyone. I am not even a boomer.
jrochkind1 7y ago
Nobody actually has a right to make someone else have sex with them.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  Good thing nobody's saying they do.

lurquer 7y ago

Your fourth paragraph is insightful. Prostitution, however, worsens the situation. The detrimental aspect of harem-based societies is not bunches of horny men unable to get laid... rather, it's bunches of single men -- horny or not -- that are not part of a family, and who have no need to be productive. Prostitution lessens the desirability of men and decreases somewhat their desire to marry. This causes further declines in monogamy rates and hastens the societal damage you allude to.

jessaustin 7y ago
People like Andrew Yang are telling us that massive layoffs are coming anyway, because robots. Maybe you disapprove of lives of video-gaming and regular custom with prostitutes, but if it's inevitable maybe we should try to deal with it rather than grinding people up in our efforts to prevent it. Human lives can have meaning that is not related to work.
scotty79 7y ago
> it's bunches of single men ... that are not part of a family, and who have no need to be productive That's actually argument for prostitution. You have to earn money for prostitutes. Granted not as much as for the family but still. Also I think there's way less colateral damage for everybody if less desirable men can just buy what they crave directly instead of attempting to compete with better men over women that don't want less desirable men and if they settle for them they'll regret it.

elliekelly 7y ago

> I think the most unmentioned facet regarding prostitution is that for many men, prostitution may be the only way for them to obtain sex Andrew Gurza writes about this as a disabled person. Here’s one of his articles about it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disability-sex-workers_n_5ca21581e4b00ba6328062d8 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disability-sex-workers_n_5ca2...

taxicabjesus 7y ago

> and some version of polygamy becoming more normal Polygamy arises spontaneously in societies where lots of men get killed off by wars. As soon as the M/F ratio normalizes polygamy goes away. Fake-polygamy is like early Mormonism, where the proselytizers actively sought large numbers of women to rapidly increase the size of their group. Mormon polygamy mostly went away because of the numbers problem: it is unsustainable if you don't have a way to bring in extra girls or get rid of extra boys (the offshoot mormon cult in Colorado City sent boys away as soon as they hit 18 [2]). [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona#History - Dateline or some other news shows had stories about teenage boys getting expelled from Colorado city, so that the girls could be plural-wed. > with few men sharing many women (if you believe the online dating app stats and lots of anecdotes online). Some men get more action than others, but this is mostly because they've learned how to not be obnoxious [3] about their interests, and go after the women who also aren't so interested in a relationship, or are good at tricking women into thinking they're long term when their intentions are otherwise. [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17554503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17554503 Women generally are selective about who they get with, whereas men generally will get with whomever happens to be interested in them. With that said, many women don't get hordes of men lusting after them, and some men have learned how to mesmerize women into their bedroom, then move on to their next target without second thoughts. I posted previously about my friend who advertised on backpage for clients [0]. She was not full-service, yet was sort of traumatized by the experience anyways. She doesn't have problem with her catalogue of former boyfriends (entirely her choice), but she was bothered by the men who just wanted to pay for the privilege of putting their anatomy inside her anatomy without her being reciprocally interested. Then there was the stripper I saw a few times... The last time I saw her, she told of how she gotten beaten up by strip club patrons who'd followed her home. She didn't feel safe at home anymore [0]. She was okay with getting random men aroused, but wasn't interested in sex. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17810906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17810906 Offering prostitution as a service works for women who are flexible about who they'll get with; engaging prostitution as a client works for men who haven't figured out how to be interesting to women, or for men who are not interested in a relationship, or not capable of a relationship, or have other motivations (ex: I read about an Australian mom taking her disabled son for a monthly appointment with a sex worker). With all this talk about legalizing prostitution, I think it appropriate to point out that lots of women are engaged in legal prostitution already, it's usually just called "acting". Some women pretend they're interested in a man, but they're more interested in their wallet ('trophy girlfriend/wife'). The other common not-exactly-prostitution work for women is pornography. The main difference between pornography and prostitution is men in porn get paid a token amount too. I'm sure many of the online porn producers were set up by men who just wanted to increase the number of women they boink without having to pretend to be interested in a relationship. Some women do sex work because of economic pressure [1]. IMHO, a basic income of some sort would be an important part of any legalization of prostitution, so that the women who'd rather do anything else don't have to go into the sex industry to survive. [1] http://www.taxiwars.org/2012/03/day-12-working-girl.html http://www.taxiwars.org/2012/03/day-12-working-girl.html - this woman might not have had the ability to work in the US legally, on account of her immigration status, but we didn't actually talk beyond the formalities of her ride. I intend to write a blog post titled "the predicaments of girls and boys", but haven't gotten to it yet.

Noos 7y ago

No, it isn't the only way for many men to do so. The issue is that they don't want to put in the time or effort to be the kind of man that can, and they have radically unrealistic expectation of sex itself. No, you cannot bang a supermodel, but you can find a woman who loves you and will be with you. No, men don't have a right to sex, because it involves a woman surrendering herself; its not something innate to the man that is being denied. It's dark to make it so that women need to surrender themselves to strangers on demand for cash because men have a right to the act, and that's just part of it. Sex is really only healthy where there is mutual love and at least some level of commitment; without it there is a huge lack of protection for the woman and it becomes a banal experience for the man, because he cannot have love or intimacy from it, just the act that becomes more and more extreme over time precisely because its divorced from human sentiment. honestly i wish dang would ban these kinds of topics because we usually only get one side of them based on sort of an inhuman libertarianism; there's no "intellectual curiosity" about this, just sort of a repetition of a specific set of views with very little attempt to challenge or provide the unpopular side.

golemiprague 7y ago
on one hand feminists claim men and woman are exactly the same , on the other hand you say here that a woman having sex with a man is "surrendering herself". So which one it is, just so we can start the discussion on the same page. I don't know whether anybody have a right to anything, but what I do know is that the government enforce me to pay taxes to support a growing number of single mums who never had sex with me, they had sex with other people but from some reason I need to finance them instead of investing this money in my own children. So I wonder, if you can force me to pay for female sexual escapades and their spawns and the exciting guys they had sex with because I "didn't put the effort and have unrealistic expectations", why can't I have an agreed upon transaction, where i pay directly the woman who have sex with me? It seems that the effort I put into generating enough taxes is happily taken by all those women via the government and law enforcement, for that I am attractive enough. To be honest, I don't have much hope, today being an average white man who just go to work, share custody of his children and do all the regular duties is like being the worst criminal in the world, a person to be ridiculed and abused by all kind of interest groups. So I have learned the lesson, I just move my business and money to second world countries where the western feminist/racist/agist cancer didn't hit yet. Nobody is going to get my tax money if they don't want to give anything back, just extorting me and then spitting in my face. I'd rather give my money to south east asian hookers for having a drink with me than to taxes falling into the hands of all those blood sucking critters. I vote for the most extreme right wing parties I can, not because I support their agenda but in spite, because I feel like I am being screwed up by everyone. I am not even a boomer.

jrochkind1 7y ago

Nobody actually has a right to make someone else have sex with them.

commandlinefan 7y ago
Good thing nobody's saying they do.