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It is possible to link all of these happenings by the single term "slavery" but that does not make it prudent for the course of communication. In your original

It is possible to link all of these happenings by the single term "slavery" but that does not make it prudent for the course of communication. In your original post you elucidated images of chattel slavery, the actual written right to own another person within the law, which does not exist in the United States. In practice there are other forms of slavery, of course, as you demonstrate, some more subtle and some less. But don't fall into the trap of over-applying the label, particularly one as loaded (in the US) as slavery. Also, your smugness is... well, smug. Yes. Yes I did know about that. Stick to the information and cut out the assumption that you're delivering a revelation, because you're not. However, I appreciate your bitterness and rage towards the unfairness of the world.

bugsy 16y ago
Huh, what's that word where someone describes themselves and applies it to others? Like a smug person calling another person smug? Oh yeah, projection, it's called projection. Lots of real modern slavery in the US and elsewhere regardless of your personal opinions about it.
- Helianthus16 16y ago
  Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to admit I was being smug, though I might prefer the term coldly critical or openly irritated. Your deflection of my criticism does not address my criticism, it merely weakly attempts to declare it unimportant. "You're smug too!" Additionally you have failed to address anything about my point concerning precision of definition, except perhaps _very_ obliquely by using the phrase "real modern slavery" to deselect chattel slavery. I do not question that some (many) form(s) of slavery exist(s). I was the one that suggested a form of slavery you might have meant. When your terms are overbroad, you fail to communicate (as has happened in this topic). Clarity is your responsibility as a writer.
  - bugsy 16y ago
    The selection of chattel is your own arbitrary distinction. Being held against one's will, forced to labor, and not paid, is slavery. Is your concern that slaves are not being bought and sold as property? Well they are bought and sold in many of these cases. Not all of them are, but not all slaves in plantation days were bought and sold either. You're trying to claim that slavery doesn't exist because you want to make it be only something exactly the same as plantation era slavery, which is an absurd claim for which there is no justification.
    - Helianthus16 16y ago
      It is arbitrary but so far as it is my own, it is also most people's, tying into my point about clarity of definition. Chattel slavery means the public acceptance of slavery--slave markets, the fugitive slave act. Chattel is a legal term connoting legal approval of slavery. It is also what people think of first when someone starts talking about slavery. Alongside chattel slavery was indentured servitude, which might well fall into your definition of slavery. >You're trying to claim that slavery doesn't exist because you want to make it be only something exactly the same as plantation era slavery No, I am not. I am asking you to be more precise in your language, because typing off a one-line post about non-hypothetical slavery was confusing. Notice how more people upvoted you when you were expanded the precision of what you meant by slavery?
      - bugsy 16y ago
        Perhaps in your imagination. Speaking of clarity, I hope you will come to some clarity in your mind that you are the only person here trying to insert these qualifiers into this discussion.
        Helianthus16 16y ago
        there are two of us here, though this will be my last post. I already inserted the qualifier into the discussion, way back in response to Charuru. I clarified your point. Karma's not important, but it does demonstrate how many people resonated with concepts; and as I already said, the flow of karma demonstrates that when you actually communicated, people agreed with you more.

bugsy 16y ago

Huh, what's that word where someone describes themselves and applies it to others? Like a smug person calling another person smug? Oh yeah, projection, it's called projection. Lots of real modern slavery in the US and elsewhere regardless of your personal opinions about it.

Helianthus16 16y ago
Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to admit I was being smug, though I might prefer the term coldly critical or openly irritated. Your deflection of my criticism does not address my criticism, it merely weakly attempts to declare it unimportant. "You're smug too!" Additionally you have failed to address anything about my point concerning precision of definition, except perhaps _very_ obliquely by using the phrase "real modern slavery" to deselect chattel slavery. I do not question that some (many) form(s) of slavery exist(s). I was the one that suggested a form of slavery you might have meant. When your terms are overbroad, you fail to communicate (as has happened in this topic). Clarity is your responsibility as a writer.
- bugsy 16y ago
  The selection of chattel is your own arbitrary distinction. Being held against one's will, forced to labor, and not paid, is slavery. Is your concern that slaves are not being bought and sold as property? Well they are bought and sold in many of these cases. Not all of them are, but not all slaves in plantation days were bought and sold either. You're trying to claim that slavery doesn't exist because you want to make it be only something exactly the same as plantation era slavery, which is an absurd claim for which there is no justification.
  - Helianthus16 16y ago
    It is arbitrary but so far as it is my own, it is also most people's, tying into my point about clarity of definition. Chattel slavery means the public acceptance of slavery--slave markets, the fugitive slave act. Chattel is a legal term connoting legal approval of slavery. It is also what people think of first when someone starts talking about slavery. Alongside chattel slavery was indentured servitude, which might well fall into your definition of slavery. >You're trying to claim that slavery doesn't exist because you want to make it be only something exactly the same as plantation era slavery No, I am not. I am asking you to be more precise in your language, because typing off a one-line post about non-hypothetical slavery was confusing. Notice how more people upvoted you when you were expanded the precision of what you meant by slavery?
    - bugsy 16y ago
      Perhaps in your imagination. Speaking of clarity, I hope you will come to some clarity in your mind that you are the only person here trying to insert these qualifiers into this discussion.
      - Helianthus16 16y ago
        there are two of us here, though this will be my last post. I already inserted the qualifier into the discussion, way back in response to Charuru. I clarified your point. Karma's not important, but it does demonstrate how many people resonated with concepts; and as I already said, the flow of karma demonstrates that when you actually communicated, people agreed with you more.