4 ms·

> Edward Snowden did not go through the proper channels. If he had, doing so would not have led to his prosecution. I'm not sure why you're so trusting of the

> Edward Snowden did not go through the proper channels. If he had, doing so would not have led to his prosecution. I'm not sure why you're so trusting of the government that is openly admitting they are unwilling to release their secrets, and not only that but the court system is designed to protect this. From what I heard, he tried to go through the proper channels, and was rebuffed. So it's his word against the government, when we already have substantial evidence of the government lying about surveillance programs time and time again.

HenryKissinger 7y ago
If you go through the proper whistleblowing channels and get nowhere, it simply means that whatever it is you tried to blow the whistle on, isn't illegal, unethical, or unconstitutional. You humbly recognize that you were wrong, and go back to work. You don't start betraying your country and flee in the arms of the enemy.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  Or maybe... just maybe... The government knows it’s illegal and doesn’t care. When Congress found out about what was happening, they didn’t shut it down; They reauthorized it. Why? They don’t care. Comey lied to Congress about the NSA and got away with it. If you think the government cares about what’s legal and what’s not, you’re sorely mistaken. And he didn’t “flee [into] the arms of the enemy.” A simple google search will yield tons of results that state his passport was canceled while he was in Russia on the way somewhere else. Some even include quotes from the US government (who love to lie) stating that it’s true.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > You don't start betraying your country I consider Edward Snowden the most patriotic American in my life time. The fact that you consider someone revealing the government not only lying under oath, but eroding our 4th Amendment rights to be a traitor is just mind boggling. Our nation was founded by rebels fighting for greater freedoms, after all. Edward Snowden is simply allowing the public to be more educated about the government in hopes they might enact change. He gave up his citizenship fighting for what he believed in, and it was the US government that villified him. Whenever an organization is secretive, it is only for that organization to protect itself. I've never once encountered an exception to that rule (although I do believe some must exist). I just don't understand why you assume the government is trustworthy, when there is extraordinary evidence of them deceiving the public time and time again. This same line of reasoning is what led to the 737-MAX disasters - whistle blowers were ignored and people literally died as a result. The only difference is you assign some sort of authority to the government that makes them infallible.
- monocasa 7y ago
  Snowden, being a contractor, didn't have whistleblower protections. In spite of that, he did escalate the issues he saw (Clapper openly perjuring himself before Congress), and was rebuffed. Since he leaked it, the courts have since found that the NSA was in fact violating the Constitution. I would say the facts openly disagree with your assertation that if the whistleblower protections aren't enough, then it means the government isn't doing anything wrong.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Pshh
- CriticalCathed 7y ago
  Or, you realize that it was unconstitutional but that the government doesn't care anymore. And so you do the thing patriots do and sacrifice your life to make the information known. Snowden is a patriot and an American hero. The traitors are those who didn't speak up, and those in power who allow the violations of our constitutional rights to continue.
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  Your facts are just plain wrong here. As of a couple years ago the NSA has openly admitted to Congress it is illegally collecting certain information about Americans it isn't supposed to. It openly admits it now because Snowden leaked this. Before the leak the NSA just lied about it to their oversight committee. The people at the top should be in prison. They violated our rights, lied about it to congress, and got caught.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  If it doesn't go anywhere, doesn't that imply that it is illegal and that there's a cover up going on? Why do you assume that the government can effectively self regulate? The whole reason we have a separation of powers is because government doesn't effectively self regulate. In to case of the NSA, Congress effectively looked the other way and gave the NSA pre-approval through having the FISA courts essentially rubber stamp everything. So in this case, we didn't really have an effective separation of powers. The courts weren't working and Congress was willing to let them break the law. That's exactly the case where you go public. You release a little bit of less sensitive information to show you have it, and continue to release information if the state refuses to discuss it. From everything I've read, Snowdon's intent was never to harm the US, but to correct illegal behavior.
- craftinator 7y ago
  Nice one Henry, but remember, no trolling on HN. Dang will blow your whistle if you do!

HenryKissinger 7y ago

If you go through the proper whistleblowing channels and get nowhere, it simply means that whatever it is you tried to blow the whistle on, isn't illegal, unethical, or unconstitutional. You humbly recognize that you were wrong, and go back to work. You don't start betraying your country and flee in the arms of the enemy.

colejohnson66 7y ago
Or maybe... just maybe... The government knows it’s illegal and doesn’t care. When Congress found out about what was happening, they didn’t shut it down; They reauthorized it. Why? They don’t care. Comey lied to Congress about the NSA and got away with it. If you think the government cares about what’s legal and what’s not, you’re sorely mistaken. And he didn’t “flee [into] the arms of the enemy.” A simple google search will yield tons of results that state his passport was canceled while he was in Russia on the way somewhere else. Some even include quotes from the US government (who love to lie) stating that it’s true.
OnlineGladiator 7y ago
> You don't start betraying your country I consider Edward Snowden the most patriotic American in my life time. The fact that you consider someone revealing the government not only lying under oath, but eroding our 4th Amendment rights to be a traitor is just mind boggling. Our nation was founded by rebels fighting for greater freedoms, after all. Edward Snowden is simply allowing the public to be more educated about the government in hopes they might enact change. He gave up his citizenship fighting for what he believed in, and it was the US government that villified him. Whenever an organization is secretive, it is only for that organization to protect itself. I've never once encountered an exception to that rule (although I do believe some must exist). I just don't understand why you assume the government is trustworthy, when there is extraordinary evidence of them deceiving the public time and time again. This same line of reasoning is what led to the 737-MAX disasters - whistle blowers were ignored and people literally died as a result. The only difference is you assign some sort of authority to the government that makes them infallible.
monocasa 7y ago
Snowden, being a contractor, didn't have whistleblower protections. In spite of that, he did escalate the issues he saw (Clapper openly perjuring himself before Congress), and was rebuffed. Since he leaked it, the courts have since found that the NSA was in fact violating the Constitution. I would say the facts openly disagree with your assertation that if the whistleblower protections aren't enough, then it means the government isn't doing anything wrong.
MiroF 7y ago
Pshh
CriticalCathed 7y ago
Or, you realize that it was unconstitutional but that the government doesn't care anymore. And so you do the thing patriots do and sacrifice your life to make the information known. Snowden is a patriot and an American hero. The traitors are those who didn't speak up, and those in power who allow the violations of our constitutional rights to continue.
bcrosby95 7y ago
Your facts are just plain wrong here. As of a couple years ago the NSA has openly admitted to Congress it is illegally collecting certain information about Americans it isn't supposed to. It openly admits it now because Snowden leaked this. Before the leak the NSA just lied about it to their oversight committee. The people at the top should be in prison. They violated our rights, lied about it to congress, and got caught.
beatgammit 7y ago
If it doesn't go anywhere, doesn't that imply that it is illegal and that there's a cover up going on? Why do you assume that the government can effectively self regulate? The whole reason we have a separation of powers is because government doesn't effectively self regulate. In to case of the NSA, Congress effectively looked the other way and gave the NSA pre-approval through having the FISA courts essentially rubber stamp everything. So in this case, we didn't really have an effective separation of powers. The courts weren't working and Congress was willing to let them break the law. That's exactly the case where you go public. You release a little bit of less sensitive information to show you have it, and continue to release information if the state refuses to discuss it. From everything I've read, Snowdon's intent was never to harm the US, but to correct illegal behavior.
craftinator 7y ago
Nice one Henry, but remember, no trolling on HN. Dang will blow your whistle if you do!