5 ms·

> It's hard to attack at scale. Conceivably someone could make a fake ID The "make a fake ID" step by itself is already hard. The identity card is not just a p

by cesarb 7y ago

> It's hard to attack at scale. Conceivably someone could make a fake ID The "make a fake ID" step by itself is already hard. The identity card is not just a piece of paper. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_identity_card#Security_features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_identity_card#Security_... to see how many anti-counterfeiting features it has.

iancarroll 7y ago
Nearly every feature in that list, save for maybe security strands, is commoditized and mass-produced in the USA's fake ID market. It would be kind of silly to exploit here, though.
- wongarsu 7y ago
  I guess Germany's liberal drinking laws make for a much smaller fake ID market. You could still pull it off, especially since most people aren't really trained for spotting fake IDs. But a German fake ID is not exactly something you buy for $10 each at the drug dealer on the corner.
  - namibj 7y ago
    Especially considering it has cryptographically secured biometrics (iirc facial features and a subset of fingerprints) that can be accessed with credentials printed on the back. If they were to make use of that, any forgery would be be beyond the regular fake id market. The German Personalausweis is basically a stateless ID-1 passport.
    - neuronic 7y ago
      > The German Personalausweis is basically a stateless ID-1 passport. And as property it belongs to the state, not the citizen. You are required and expected to have it on you at all times. You are also required to report it missing. When I moved to the US, I was baffled that IDs are basically just driving licenses and you only have them if you... well have a driving license. I guess it's about where you draw the line in the end. I understand that many US Americans feel threatened by the federal government as it is perceived autocratic to be forced to carry a government issued identification card at all times. For me, it just guarantees that it is harder for someone else to walk around and impersonate me with some shitty fake ID.
      - Tomte 7y ago
        > And as property it belongs to the state, not the citizen. That's a myth. It is the property of the citizen. You may be thinking of the passport, though. > You are required and expected to have it on you at all times. Again a myth. You don't even have to own an ID card (if you have a passport). In any case there is no law or regulation forcing you to carry it. There is no fine for not carrying it. It's still a good idea to carry it, because a police stop (which I encountered thrice in my life) is much quicker when you can show your ID card, instead of being taken to the police station for identity verification. > You are also required to report it missing. I'm not certain about this point, but I doubt that. Still, it's obviously a good idea, in order to nip identity theft and the hassle that comes with it in the bud.
      - TomMarius 7y ago
        > You are required and expected to have it on you at all times. I'd be very surprised about that. That's a law most of formerly communist Europe has cancelled immediately after the revolutions
        dekrg 7y ago
        Prepare to be surprised then as optional IDs are pretty much only a thing western countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the_European_Economic_Area#Overview_of_national_identity_cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the...
        Tomte 7y ago
        Bad reference. Again Germany: it's colored red, but the table clearly states that you don't need to carry it. Which is the statement you tried to counter with your link.
        TomMarius 7y ago
        Yeah, you need to have it, but you don't need to carry it, nor show it to anyone (including the police - they're supposed to use other method of identification if you refuse).
jen729w 7y ago
If you’re checking 38,000 over the course of a week, how thoroughly are you checking them by 4pm on Friday afternoon?
moooo99 7y ago
From reading the PDF, bringing your university id with you is sufficient. You do not need an official passport/etc. A student id has a lot less security measures, they're basically just rfid cards with your data printed on. Assuming the attacker has access to the computer used for issuing these cards, it would probably be pretty easy to obtain the data neccessary to create such a fake id.
- neuronic 7y ago
  But not 38k times.

by cesarb 7y ago

iancarroll 7y ago

Nearly every feature in that list, save for maybe security strands, is commoditized and mass-produced in the USA's fake ID market. It would be kind of silly to exploit here, though.

wongarsu 7y ago
I guess Germany's liberal drinking laws make for a much smaller fake ID market. You could still pull it off, especially since most people aren't really trained for spotting fake IDs. But a German fake ID is not exactly something you buy for $10 each at the drug dealer on the corner.
- namibj 7y ago
  Especially considering it has cryptographically secured biometrics (iirc facial features and a subset of fingerprints) that can be accessed with credentials printed on the back. If they were to make use of that, any forgery would be be beyond the regular fake id market. The German Personalausweis is basically a stateless ID-1 passport.
  - neuronic 7y ago
    > The German Personalausweis is basically a stateless ID-1 passport. And as property it belongs to the state, not the citizen. You are required and expected to have it on you at all times. You are also required to report it missing. When I moved to the US, I was baffled that IDs are basically just driving licenses and you only have them if you... well have a driving license. I guess it's about where you draw the line in the end. I understand that many US Americans feel threatened by the federal government as it is perceived autocratic to be forced to carry a government issued identification card at all times. For me, it just guarantees that it is harder for someone else to walk around and impersonate me with some shitty fake ID.
    - Tomte 7y ago
      > And as property it belongs to the state, not the citizen. That's a myth. It is the property of the citizen. You may be thinking of the passport, though. > You are required and expected to have it on you at all times. Again a myth. You don't even have to own an ID card (if you have a passport). In any case there is no law or regulation forcing you to carry it. There is no fine for not carrying it. It's still a good idea to carry it, because a police stop (which I encountered thrice in my life) is much quicker when you can show your ID card, instead of being taken to the police station for identity verification. > You are also required to report it missing. I'm not certain about this point, but I doubt that. Still, it's obviously a good idea, in order to nip identity theft and the hassle that comes with it in the bud.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      > You are required and expected to have it on you at all times. I'd be very surprised about that. That's a law most of formerly communist Europe has cancelled immediately after the revolutions
      - dekrg 7y ago
        Prepare to be surprised then as optional IDs are pretty much only a thing western countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the_European_Economic_Area#Overview_of_national_identity_cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the...
        Tomte 7y ago
        Bad reference. Again Germany: it's colored red, but the table clearly states that you don't need to carry it. Which is the statement you tried to counter with your link.
        TomMarius 7y ago
        Yeah, you need to have it, but you don't need to carry it, nor show it to anyone (including the police - they're supposed to use other method of identification if you refuse).

jen729w 7y ago

If you’re checking 38,000 over the course of a week, how thoroughly are you checking them by 4pm on Friday afternoon?

moooo99 7y ago

From reading the PDF, bringing your university id with you is sufficient. You do not need an official passport/etc. A student id has a lot less security measures, they're basically just rfid cards with your data printed on. Assuming the attacker has access to the computer used for issuing these cards, it would probably be pretty easy to obtain the data neccessary to create such a fake id.

neuronic 7y ago
But not 38k times.