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Breaking News! John Gruber Not Impressed By Apple Offering

ugh 16y ago
Hey, you are doubly wrong, congratulations! The Daily is not an Apple offering and Gruber is often critical of Apple offerings.
- collypops 16y ago
  I understand that my comment may look like the sort of thing that would appear on a lesser news aggregation / community website that shall remain unnamed, but I promise I never intended it as such. Nor did I attempt to attract the kind of fire-poking (flaming, trolling, or whatever the cool kids call it these days) responses that usually follow such comments, but I guess there's only so much we can convey in text when we don't take the time to elaborate. The Daily is a collaboration between Apple and News Corp. I'm not going to post links to various sources here that state that fact. Google is an excellent resource for finding out such things - I regularly consult it before attempting to shoot down people's comments (just in case my argument is unfounded). I also respect HN's rules about posting links all over the place. Although John Gruber has been critical of Apple in the past, he is thought of by many (especially of late) to be Apple's unpaid mascot; solidly supporting their opinions on the Flash situation and the WebM/H.264 debate. To be honest, my comment was more to do with my feelings on his recent behaviour, because I connected more with the John Gruber that brought us Markdown and other great things, rather then John Gruber the Apple fanboy. I just wish we got to see more of that side of him, but it seems to be fading. I don't appreciate your congratulations. I never entered the ugh pageant, and nobody likes to win the 'doubly wrong' prize, especially when they're not. I think that next time I'll provide a bit more information, lest someone think that I'm here to spout sensationalist drivel.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Apple did the subscription stuff (Gruber was not critical of that), the app and its content (which Gruber is criticizing) is wholly developed and created by News Corp. An endorsement by Apple and some collaboration on the subscription APIs does not make this an Apple offering in any way. And Gruber still is critical of Apple. That’s not a thing of the past. Just because he doesn’t agree with some of your personal opinions about something doesn’t make him an fanboy (which is a stupid word anyway and should never be used to describe anyone. It’s a lame dismissal of serious debate, a conversation stopper.)
    - collypops 16y ago
      His complaint about Apple in this instance wasn't about the app itself. It was with their APIs which limit background loading that he took issue with. Perhaps this post was in some way a reaction to people who share my opinion about his recent writings, but I suspect he doesn't really care. The reason Apple did the subscription stuff was because only they could. They simply do not allow anything on the app store to have in-app payments unless they pass through the app store itself and they get their tasty 30% cut. As an aside: I dislike the word fanboy too. I do however like extremist, zealot, fanatic and dogmatist. They just roll off the tongue - fanboy is just too modern in comparison.
      - ugh 16y ago
        He did not complain about Apple. Read closely. Gruber often criticizes Apple but not in this article. “extremist, zealot, fanatic and dogmatist” Justify yourself or shut up.
        collypops 16y ago
        I never once claimed that Gruber has never had a bad word to say about Apple. I follow his blog, and I agree with you that he's as impartial as I am about the things Apple either produce or endorse. What I do claim however is that in recent debates over open web standards, he has fought Apple's case without so much as an acknowledgment of the opposing arguments. As for the "extremist...." remark, I wasn't insinuating that Gruber was any of these things. I was trying to appeal to the sensibility of someone who thinks "Hey, you are doubly wrong, congratulations!" is somehow a more constructive response than my initial comment. I've clearly failed in this regard.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  He is right. The problem would not have been a problem were it not for apples stupid limitation on things that can run in the background. The only sane way to do this is obviously to run it in the background overnight, a thing any program can do on android.
  - ugh 16y ago
    The important thing is not your opinion about who is to blame but Gruber’s opinion about who is to blame and he clearly thinks that Apple is not to blame. Hence, the comment is wrong.
  - raganwald 16y ago
    This app fails to show something, anything, within the first ten seconds, and the problem is that it can't download issues overnight? No, the problem is that it fails to show something in the first ten seconds. This argument is a false dichotomy, suggesting that the only two options are download things overnight or wait a huge amount of time to show something. Other apps show something in the first ten seconds, so clearly there are more than two options possible here, and given that iOS doesn't allow overnight downloading, the criticism here is that the developers failed to choose the best option of those available. Arguing that Apple should allow overnight downloading is interesting, but not related to what these developers should do.
    - collypops 16y ago
      I agree. I feel that an app that has had Apple's good name attached to it should have at least went through better testing, perhaps even by Apple themselves. The suggestion that Gruber makes about the app having a page that slowly populates with content over time is great. I hope the developers consider something along those lines.

ugh 16y ago

Hey, you are doubly wrong, congratulations! The Daily is not an Apple offering and Gruber is often critical of Apple offerings.

collypops 16y ago
I understand that my comment may look like the sort of thing that would appear on a lesser news aggregation / community website that shall remain unnamed, but I promise I never intended it as such. Nor did I attempt to attract the kind of fire-poking (flaming, trolling, or whatever the cool kids call it these days) responses that usually follow such comments, but I guess there's only so much we can convey in text when we don't take the time to elaborate. The Daily is a collaboration between Apple and News Corp. I'm not going to post links to various sources here that state that fact. Google is an excellent resource for finding out such things - I regularly consult it before attempting to shoot down people's comments (just in case my argument is unfounded). I also respect HN's rules about posting links all over the place. Although John Gruber has been critical of Apple in the past, he is thought of by many (especially of late) to be Apple's unpaid mascot; solidly supporting their opinions on the Flash situation and the WebM/H.264 debate. To be honest, my comment was more to do with my feelings on his recent behaviour, because I connected more with the John Gruber that brought us Markdown and other great things, rather then John Gruber the Apple fanboy. I just wish we got to see more of that side of him, but it seems to be fading. I don't appreciate your congratulations. I never entered the ugh pageant, and nobody likes to win the 'doubly wrong' prize, especially when they're not. I think that next time I'll provide a bit more information, lest someone think that I'm here to spout sensationalist drivel.
- ugh 16y ago
  Apple did the subscription stuff (Gruber was not critical of that), the app and its content (which Gruber is criticizing) is wholly developed and created by News Corp. An endorsement by Apple and some collaboration on the subscription APIs does not make this an Apple offering in any way. And Gruber still is critical of Apple. That’s not a thing of the past. Just because he doesn’t agree with some of your personal opinions about something doesn’t make him an fanboy (which is a stupid word anyway and should never be used to describe anyone. It’s a lame dismissal of serious debate, a conversation stopper.)
  - collypops 16y ago
    His complaint about Apple in this instance wasn't about the app itself. It was with their APIs which limit background loading that he took issue with. Perhaps this post was in some way a reaction to people who share my opinion about his recent writings, but I suspect he doesn't really care. The reason Apple did the subscription stuff was because only they could. They simply do not allow anything on the app store to have in-app payments unless they pass through the app store itself and they get their tasty 30% cut. As an aside: I dislike the word fanboy too. I do however like extremist, zealot, fanatic and dogmatist. They just roll off the tongue - fanboy is just too modern in comparison.
    - ugh 16y ago
      He did not complain about Apple. Read closely. Gruber often criticizes Apple but not in this article. “extremist, zealot, fanatic and dogmatist” Justify yourself or shut up.
      - collypops 16y ago
        I never once claimed that Gruber has never had a bad word to say about Apple. I follow his blog, and I agree with you that he's as impartial as I am about the things Apple either produce or endorse. What I do claim however is that in recent debates over open web standards, he has fought Apple's case without so much as an acknowledgment of the opposing arguments. As for the "extremist...." remark, I wasn't insinuating that Gruber was any of these things. I was trying to appeal to the sensibility of someone who thinks "Hey, you are doubly wrong, congratulations!" is somehow a more constructive response than my initial comment. I've clearly failed in this regard.
tomjen3 16y ago
He is right. The problem would not have been a problem were it not for apples stupid limitation on things that can run in the background. The only sane way to do this is obviously to run it in the background overnight, a thing any program can do on android.
- ugh 16y ago
  The important thing is not your opinion about who is to blame but Gruber’s opinion about who is to blame and he clearly thinks that Apple is not to blame. Hence, the comment is wrong.
- raganwald 16y ago
  This app fails to show something, anything, within the first ten seconds, and the problem is that it can't download issues overnight? No, the problem is that it fails to show something in the first ten seconds. This argument is a false dichotomy, suggesting that the only two options are download things overnight or wait a huge amount of time to show something. Other apps show something in the first ten seconds, so clearly there are more than two options possible here, and given that iOS doesn't allow overnight downloading, the criticism here is that the developers failed to choose the best option of those available. Arguing that Apple should allow overnight downloading is interesting, but not related to what these developers should do.
  - collypops 16y ago
    I agree. I feel that an app that has had Apple's good name attached to it should have at least went through better testing, perhaps even by Apple themselves. The suggestion that Gruber makes about the app having a page that slowly populates with content over time is great. I hope the developers consider something along those lines.