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> Facebook told two senators why it tracks users’ locations even when their tracking services are turned off. The lawmakers now say Facebook should give users m

> Facebook told two senators why it tracks users’ locations even when their tracking services are turned off. The lawmakers now say Facebook should give users more control over their data. > Facebook said that even when location tracking is turned off, it can deduce users’ general locations from context clues like locations they tag in photos as well as their devices’ IP addresses. > While this data is not as precise as Facebook would collect with location tracking enabled, the company said it uses the information for several purposes, including alerting users when their accounts have been accessed in an unusual place and clamping down on the spread of false information. > Facebook doesn’t allow users to turn off location-based ads, although it does allow users to block Facebook from collecting their precise location, the company wrote. If I say I don't want you to track my location, I mean exactly that. Not respecting users' wishes like this is a terrible thing to do.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
generalpass 7y ago
> If I say I don't want you to track my location, I mean exactly that. Not respecting users' wishes like this is a terrible thing to do. Isn't this more of an OS level issue?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  There are ways to track location outside of the operating system. For example, even Facebook says (and the comment you replied to noted) it uses photo tagging and what wifi network you're connected to in order to determine location.
  - generalpass 7y ago
    > There are ways to track location outside of the operating system. > For example, even Facebook says (and the comment you replied to noted) it uses photo tagging and what wifi network you're connected to in order to determine location. By photo tagging, do you mean GPS coordinates? Isn't that done by the app that takes the picture? Can't I disable Wi-Fi? If my wireless ISP is giving everyone free access to my location through some sort of IP address or rDNS scheme, isn't this an ISP issue? I mean, can't you make this exact complaint about every single thing you use that connects through an IP address?
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      By photo tagging, do you mean GPS coordinates? Isn't that done by the app that takes the picture? On Facebook and many other social apps you can manually specify the location a photograph was taken. Some apps will ask you for the location if it's not available from the operating system or metadata. Can't I disable Wi-Fi? Sure. Go nuts. But you have to connect to the internet somehow to use the app, so if you're not on wifi, it can get your location from your cellular network.
      - generalpass 7y ago
        Yeah, I notice you didn't address the last paragraph. Any reason you responded so selectively?
- Daniel_sk 7y ago
  OS can block access to location, but they can still have a coarse location from your IP, tagged photos, checked-in locations, message content and so on. Disabling location tracking in FB should also disable this on the FB server side.
  - generalpass 7y ago
    > Disabling location tracking in FB should also disable this on the FB server side. Facebook is free to do with their servers as they please. Don't like it? Don't use it. I don't.
    - zepto 7y ago
      How do we know you aren’t lying?
- LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
  You can take audio snapshots of unique sounds and compute location from that- when somebody nearby has similar audio and location active.
- izacus 7y ago
  No, it isn't. Just like breaking into someones house to steal his data isn't an issue of homeowner not having a 2mil$ vault.
  - generalpass 7y ago
    > No, it isn't. Just like breaking into someones house to steal his data isn't an issue of homeowner not having a 2mil$ vault. To my knowledge, facebook isn't breaking into anything. This is a terrible analogy.
sporkologist 7y ago
> clamping down on the spread of false information It seems this user is at the corner of 47th and 3rd, so we won't tell them how oil companies lied about global warming. Did I get that right?
- sombremesa 7y ago
  I'd imagine it would look more like "these twenty people are all in the same building in Russia posting a whole lot of opinionated content about America", if it was a true story.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> the company said it uses the information for several purposes, including alerting users when their accounts have been accessed in an unusual place Recently Twitch has started screaming when I log in in an incognito window. They send me an email with a 6-digit code that I have to enter because an attempt was made to access my account from an unknown machine. Left unmentioned is any conceivable reason I would care if someone else did log in to my Twitch account. The alert and the one-time code are pure nuisance.
- a_t48 7y ago
  For you, not much. For people who make their livelihood on it, a lot. If you’re lazy and share passwords between accounts like some people do it’s also good to know that your password might be leaked.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    But I won't get an alert if this blocks someone else from accessing my account. The email will go to the address associated with the account, and the odds of me checking that address without knowing I need to are nearly zero. And all of that is as it should be, because attempts to compromise my Twitch account do not matter in any way at all. You'd need to be a lot more important than a non-streaming Twitch account before I'm going to provide an email address that can reach me reliably. "But how is Twitch supposed to know whether I'm a streaming account or a non-streaming account?"
    - a_t48 7y ago
      I'd personally rather it be secure by default than unsecure by default.
      - thaumasiotes 7y ago
        The contrast here isn't "secure by default" vs "unsecure by default". It's whether a legitimate login can come from any computer, or only a computer Twitch recognizes as having logged in to the same account in the past. I'm not saying they should stop asking for your password. So we have "secure by default" or "secure, and also incredibly irritating, by default".

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

generalpass 7y ago

> If I say I don't want you to track my location, I mean exactly that. Not respecting users' wishes like this is a terrible thing to do. Isn't this more of an OS level issue?

reaperducer 7y ago
There are ways to track location outside of the operating system. For example, even Facebook says (and the comment you replied to noted) it uses photo tagging and what wifi network you're connected to in order to determine location.
- generalpass 7y ago
  > There are ways to track location outside of the operating system. > For example, even Facebook says (and the comment you replied to noted) it uses photo tagging and what wifi network you're connected to in order to determine location. By photo tagging, do you mean GPS coordinates? Isn't that done by the app that takes the picture? Can't I disable Wi-Fi? If my wireless ISP is giving everyone free access to my location through some sort of IP address or rDNS scheme, isn't this an ISP issue? I mean, can't you make this exact complaint about every single thing you use that connects through an IP address?
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    By photo tagging, do you mean GPS coordinates? Isn't that done by the app that takes the picture? On Facebook and many other social apps you can manually specify the location a photograph was taken. Some apps will ask you for the location if it's not available from the operating system or metadata. Can't I disable Wi-Fi? Sure. Go nuts. But you have to connect to the internet somehow to use the app, so if you're not on wifi, it can get your location from your cellular network.
    - generalpass 7y ago
      Yeah, I notice you didn't address the last paragraph. Any reason you responded so selectively?
Daniel_sk 7y ago
OS can block access to location, but they can still have a coarse location from your IP, tagged photos, checked-in locations, message content and so on. Disabling location tracking in FB should also disable this on the FB server side.
- generalpass 7y ago
  > Disabling location tracking in FB should also disable this on the FB server side. Facebook is free to do with their servers as they please. Don't like it? Don't use it. I don't.
  - zepto 7y ago
    How do we know you aren’t lying?
LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
You can take audio snapshots of unique sounds and compute location from that- when somebody nearby has similar audio and location active.
izacus 7y ago
No, it isn't. Just like breaking into someones house to steal his data isn't an issue of homeowner not having a 2mil$ vault.
- generalpass 7y ago
  > No, it isn't. Just like breaking into someones house to steal his data isn't an issue of homeowner not having a 2mil$ vault. To my knowledge, facebook isn't breaking into anything. This is a terrible analogy.

sporkologist 7y ago

> clamping down on the spread of false information It seems this user is at the corner of 47th and 3rd, so we won't tell them how oil companies lied about global warming. Did I get that right?

sombremesa 7y ago
I'd imagine it would look more like "these twenty people are all in the same building in Russia posting a whole lot of opinionated content about America", if it was a true story.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> the company said it uses the information for several purposes, including alerting users when their accounts have been accessed in an unusual place Recently Twitch has started screaming when I log in in an incognito window. They send me an email with a 6-digit code that I have to enter because an attempt was made to access my account from an unknown machine. Left unmentioned is any conceivable reason I would care if someone else did log in to my Twitch account. The alert and the one-time code are pure nuisance.

a_t48 7y ago
For you, not much. For people who make their livelihood on it, a lot. If you’re lazy and share passwords between accounts like some people do it’s also good to know that your password might be leaked.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  But I won't get an alert if this blocks someone else from accessing my account. The email will go to the address associated with the account, and the odds of me checking that address without knowing I need to are nearly zero. And all of that is as it should be, because attempts to compromise my Twitch account do not matter in any way at all. You'd need to be a lot more important than a non-streaming Twitch account before I'm going to provide an email address that can reach me reliably. "But how is Twitch supposed to know whether I'm a streaming account or a non-streaming account?"
  - a_t48 7y ago
    I'd personally rather it be secure by default than unsecure by default.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      The contrast here isn't "secure by default" vs "unsecure by default". It's whether a legitimate login can come from any computer, or only a computer Twitch recognizes as having logged in to the same account in the past. I'm not saying they should stop asking for your password. So we have "secure by default" or "secure, and also incredibly irritating, by default".