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I hope security is at the top of their list. I want a super secure hub that everything connects to. The hub is the only thing that speaks to my router. The hub

I hope security is at the top of their list. I want a super secure hub that everything connects to. The hub is the only thing that speaks to my router. The hub is super secure & doesn't let devices send data back to their manufacturer. If I buy cheap devices off a flea market like Amazon, I want to sleep safe & know that the hub is preventing that device from messing with any other devices or accessing the internet. The hub can send me notifications and I can send it requests. It would be cool if I could choose to have the main hub database & software based in the cloud or on my local network. Not sure if this is already possible. If it is, I would love to hear more.

mr__y 7y ago
Even if the hub was actually secure this still does not prevent from someone near to your house to talk to the devices directly (this applies especially to wireless devices). The hub you described would prevent from the remote attacks only
- mattferderer 7y ago
  Security is a never ending rabbit hole. I am more concerned about the bigger threat, global attacks. I get if you live in a densely populated area that drive-by type attacks would be very concerning.
  - mr__y 7y ago
    >drive-by type attacks would be very concerning not only that. One insecure system in the area could be infected and then controlled to attack other networks in the area. With a high density of IoT devices you could have malware spreading wirelessly device-to-device. Also with a wide IoT adoption with such devices being used by public/utilities companies (smart street lamps, leakage monitoring in pipes, smart electric grid etc) you don't even need a densely populated area to have that problem. >I am more concerned about the bigger threat, global attacks. I once read something among the lines that IT security needs its own Pearl Harbor event. I can neither quote it exactly or attribute it to any source
jes5199 7y ago
Apple, Amazon, and Google are fundamentally opposed to a model that sells devices that don’t phone home - their whole purpose is to capture value by creating lock-in for surveillable hosted services
- oflannabhra 7y ago
  This is not exactly the case for HomeKit. Apple didn't even add the ability to control devices when you are off your home network until recently.
  - eunoia 7y ago
    Seconded. Apple, Amazon and Google have very different goals for your data. This is just a transport layer. Your privacy from the mother company isn’t impacted by the transport layer, but rather where they put the “brains” of your smart home. While all using the same transport layer they can continue to utilize different “brain” strategies. Apple’s “brain” has always been in your home where your data belongs and should stay. Google started with the cloud but is moving towards the same model. On the other hand Amazon seems to have no qualms slurping everything out of your home to their servers and no plans to change. The more you know.
  - moduspol 7y ago
    Yep. And it's Apple that's pushing for a HomeKit router [1]. Reading between the lines of how Apple's been handling the "smart home" business, they've been focusing on privacy and security relative to competitors, but it's been holding them back. I think the market has kind of shown that privacy (e.g. devices that aren't streaming to / dependent on the cloud) and security have not been primary concerns of the people who buy smart home devices, but solving those problems better may be key to enlarging the "smart home" market to include normal people. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3446197/why-we-need-apples-homekit-enabled-routers.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3446197/why-we-need-ap...
  - mackey 7y ago
    Not sure I understand. I am pretty sure you have been to remotely control Homekit since the beginning, originally by utilizing an Apple TV 3rd generation, and subsequently with iPads, Apple TV 4th gen/Apple TV 4K, and now HomePods.
chasd00 7y ago
what do people mean when they say security for smart home devices? if the "launch ICBM" port is open on a device on your LAN doesn't an attacker still have to traverse your router to get to it? Otherwise, an attacker would have to get access to your LAN. Is something like that what you mean?
- Angostura 7y ago
  People would prefer 1. Their lightbulbs to not be co-opted into DDoS attacks 2. That their cameras are only used by them 3. That others can't control their devices 4. That their devices receive security updates 5. That their devices don't contain back-doors 6. That their devices can be used when isolated from the Internet ... I imagine.
  - mattferderer 7y ago
    Well said
baybal2 7y ago
I'll tell you this. You already have a hub, it's called WiFi router. I see zero reasons to rationalise the need to buy yet another white box for the buyer.
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  Wifi is a poor choice for this because it uses a lot of power. Lots of things that connect to a smart hub are tiny sensors that use expensive batteries.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    The consumer have a choice, a device that works right away, or a better, more expensive one that doesn't Think why they can't sell much of these
fyfy18 7y ago
This is how ZigBee and Zwave work. The devices form their own network for inter-device communication (it can be setup so a switch talks directly to a bulb, so even if the network is unreachable it still works) and then you use a hub to orchestrate that and provide functionality such as phone control via an app. That can be something simple like a Philips Hue hub, or something more complex like SmartThings, or you can roll your own using Home Assistant and a dongle. The problem with these protocols is although they are more or less open, device manufacturers need to pay to be certified.

mr__y 7y ago

Even if the hub was actually secure this still does not prevent from someone near to your house to talk to the devices directly (this applies especially to wireless devices). The hub you described would prevent from the remote attacks only

mattferderer 7y ago
Security is a never ending rabbit hole. I am more concerned about the bigger threat, global attacks. I get if you live in a densely populated area that drive-by type attacks would be very concerning.
- mr__y 7y ago
  >drive-by type attacks would be very concerning not only that. One insecure system in the area could be infected and then controlled to attack other networks in the area. With a high density of IoT devices you could have malware spreading wirelessly device-to-device. Also with a wide IoT adoption with such devices being used by public/utilities companies (smart street lamps, leakage monitoring in pipes, smart electric grid etc) you don't even need a densely populated area to have that problem. >I am more concerned about the bigger threat, global attacks. I once read something among the lines that IT security needs its own Pearl Harbor event. I can neither quote it exactly or attribute it to any source

jes5199 7y ago

Apple, Amazon, and Google are fundamentally opposed to a model that sells devices that don’t phone home - their whole purpose is to capture value by creating lock-in for surveillable hosted services

oflannabhra 7y ago
This is not exactly the case for HomeKit. Apple didn't even add the ability to control devices when you are off your home network until recently.
- eunoia 7y ago
  Seconded. Apple, Amazon and Google have very different goals for your data. This is just a transport layer. Your privacy from the mother company isn’t impacted by the transport layer, but rather where they put the “brains” of your smart home. While all using the same transport layer they can continue to utilize different “brain” strategies. Apple’s “brain” has always been in your home where your data belongs and should stay. Google started with the cloud but is moving towards the same model. On the other hand Amazon seems to have no qualms slurping everything out of your home to their servers and no plans to change. The more you know.
- moduspol 7y ago
  Yep. And it's Apple that's pushing for a HomeKit router [1]. Reading between the lines of how Apple's been handling the "smart home" business, they've been focusing on privacy and security relative to competitors, but it's been holding them back. I think the market has kind of shown that privacy (e.g. devices that aren't streaming to / dependent on the cloud) and security have not been primary concerns of the people who buy smart home devices, but solving those problems better may be key to enlarging the "smart home" market to include normal people. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3446197/why-we-need-apples-homekit-enabled-routers.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3446197/why-we-need-ap...
- mackey 7y ago
  Not sure I understand. I am pretty sure you have been to remotely control Homekit since the beginning, originally by utilizing an Apple TV 3rd generation, and subsequently with iPads, Apple TV 4th gen/Apple TV 4K, and now HomePods.

chasd00 7y ago

what do people mean when they say security for smart home devices? if the "launch ICBM" port is open on a device on your LAN doesn't an attacker still have to traverse your router to get to it? Otherwise, an attacker would have to get access to your LAN. Is something like that what you mean?

Angostura 7y ago
People would prefer 1. Their lightbulbs to not be co-opted into DDoS attacks 2. That their cameras are only used by them 3. That others can't control their devices 4. That their devices receive security updates 5. That their devices don't contain back-doors 6. That their devices can be used when isolated from the Internet ... I imagine.
- mattferderer 7y ago
  Well said

baybal2 7y ago

I'll tell you this. You already have a hub, it's called WiFi router. I see zero reasons to rationalise the need to buy yet another white box for the buyer.

bcrosby95 7y ago
Wifi is a poor choice for this because it uses a lot of power. Lots of things that connect to a smart hub are tiny sensors that use expensive batteries.
- baybal2 7y ago
  The consumer have a choice, a device that works right away, or a better, more expensive one that doesn't Think why they can't sell much of these

fyfy18 7y ago

This is how ZigBee and Zwave work. The devices form their own network for inter-device communication (it can be setup so a switch talks directly to a bulb, so even if the network is unreachable it still works) and then you use a hub to orchestrate that and provide functionality such as phone control via an app. That can be something simple like a Philips Hue hub, or something more complex like SmartThings, or you can roll your own using Home Assistant and a dongle. The problem with these protocols is although they are more or less open, device manufacturers need to pay to be certified.