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> > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. > And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now

> > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. > And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. Just for the record, the incarceration rate is much higher in USA than in Turkey. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2... lists 737 vs. 97 per 100k population (though I can't find a date there), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... says 655 vs. 288. https://www.statista.com/statistics/300986/incarceration-rates-in-oecd-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/300986/incarceration-rat... has data from 2019 and says 655 vs. 318. Still more than twice as high in the USA than in Turkey.

jacquesm 7y ago
Yes, the United States has a problem and it is well documented. But that does not at all begin to tell the whole story about why people are locked up. In the United States it is large numbers of people that got caught up in the so-called war-on-drugs, in Turkey it is because Erdogan has used the failed coup (if there even was one) as a pretext to lock up just about everybody who he felt might be a threat to his regime.
- banads 7y ago
  It seems Nixon's and Erdogan's motivations were similar. The war on drugs was created by the Nixon regime as a way to neutralize threatening political movements like Black Power and the Hippie Peace movement.
  - umvi 7y ago
    > The war on drugs was created by the Nixon regime as a way to neutralize threatening political movements like Black Power and the Hippie Peace movement. This seems like one of those Illuminati/Knights Templar conspiracy theories. I don't buy it. I'm imagining Nixon's cabinet in a super secret meeting: Nixon: "Those hippies and negroes. They are growing too powerful. Soon, democrats will dominate every level of government" Secretary of State: "But what can we do?" Nixon: smirks and peers over reading glasses directly at the camera Nixon: "We hit them where it hurts. Tell me, what does the hippy and the negro have in common?" Secretary of Agriculture: "High rates of homelessness?" Nixon: "No, the Reefer. We can't outright declare war on US citizens. But we can attack the thing they hold most dear and get the religious right to love us for it." Secretary of Defense: "Mother of God... a war... on drugs" Nixon: "Precisely. The hippy and negro cannot resist the draw of the Reefer. Thus, we simply declare war on the Reefer. We can lock them up in prisons where they will harmlessly live out their days, unable to empower the democratic party."
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Lordy, I hope there are tapes. To quote a particular Individual(-1). But there is more than a grain of truth to this.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Ummm... doesn't everyone know about Ehrlichman's comments by now? You might need some remedial reading: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nixon-aide-war-drugs-tool-target-black-people-article-1.2573832 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nixon-aide-war-dru...
    - banads 7y ago
      Your satirically imagined quotes are comically similar to the actual quotes: Nixon: "You see, homosexuality, dope, immorality in general. These are the enemies of strong societies. That's why the Communists and the left-wingers are pushing the stuff, they're trying to destroy us" You might want to read up on some history: http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm
    - greiskul 7y ago
      Well, that's not too far off from what probably happened. According to former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman: "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-...
      - pathseeker 7y ago
        According to Harper's magazine, which conveniently published that after his death. From the same article: >Ehrlichman died in 1999, but his five children in questioned the veracity of the account. >"We never saw or heard anything from our dad, John Ehrlichman, that was derogatory about any person of color," wrote Peter Ehrlichman, Tom Ehrlichman, Jan Ehrlichman, Michael Ehrlichman and Jody E. Pineda in a statement provided to CNN. >Ehrlichman's comments did not surface until now after Baum remembered them while going back through old notes for the Harper's story. >Baum interviewed Ehrlichman and others for his 1996 book "Smoke and Mirrors," but said he left out the Ehrlichman comment from the book because it did not fit the narrative style focused on putting the readers in the middle of the backroom discussions themselves, without input from the author. How convenient. He was sitting on a massive admission because it "didn't fit the style".

jacquesm 7y ago

Yes, the United States has a problem and it is well documented. But that does not at all begin to tell the whole story about why people are locked up. In the United States it is large numbers of people that got caught up in the so-called war-on-drugs, in Turkey it is because Erdogan has used the failed coup (if there even was one) as a pretext to lock up just about everybody who he felt might be a threat to his regime.

banads 7y ago
It seems Nixon's and Erdogan's motivations were similar. The war on drugs was created by the Nixon regime as a way to neutralize threatening political movements like Black Power and the Hippie Peace movement.
- umvi 7y ago
  > The war on drugs was created by the Nixon regime as a way to neutralize threatening political movements like Black Power and the Hippie Peace movement. This seems like one of those Illuminati/Knights Templar conspiracy theories. I don't buy it. I'm imagining Nixon's cabinet in a super secret meeting: Nixon: "Those hippies and negroes. They are growing too powerful. Soon, democrats will dominate every level of government" Secretary of State: "But what can we do?" Nixon: smirks and peers over reading glasses directly at the camera Nixon: "We hit them where it hurts. Tell me, what does the hippy and the negro have in common?" Secretary of Agriculture: "High rates of homelessness?" Nixon: "No, the Reefer. We can't outright declare war on US citizens. But we can attack the thing they hold most dear and get the religious right to love us for it." Secretary of Defense: "Mother of God... a war... on drugs" Nixon: "Precisely. The hippy and negro cannot resist the draw of the Reefer. Thus, we simply declare war on the Reefer. We can lock them up in prisons where they will harmlessly live out their days, unable to empower the democratic party."
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Lordy, I hope there are tapes. To quote a particular Individual(-1). But there is more than a grain of truth to this.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Ummm... doesn't everyone know about Ehrlichman's comments by now? You might need some remedial reading: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nixon-aide-war-drugs-tool-target-black-people-article-1.2573832 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nixon-aide-war-dru...
  - banads 7y ago
    Your satirically imagined quotes are comically similar to the actual quotes: Nixon: "You see, homosexuality, dope, immorality in general. These are the enemies of strong societies. That's why the Communists and the left-wingers are pushing the stuff, they're trying to destroy us" You might want to read up on some history: http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm
  - greiskul 7y ago
    Well, that's not too far off from what probably happened. According to former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman: "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-...
    - pathseeker 7y ago
      According to Harper's magazine, which conveniently published that after his death. From the same article: >Ehrlichman died in 1999, but his five children in questioned the veracity of the account. >"We never saw or heard anything from our dad, John Ehrlichman, that was derogatory about any person of color," wrote Peter Ehrlichman, Tom Ehrlichman, Jan Ehrlichman, Michael Ehrlichman and Jody E. Pineda in a statement provided to CNN. >Ehrlichman's comments did not surface until now after Baum remembered them while going back through old notes for the Harper's story. >Baum interviewed Ehrlichman and others for his 1996 book "Smoke and Mirrors," but said he left out the Ehrlichman comment from the book because it did not fit the narrative style focused on putting the readers in the middle of the backroom discussions themselves, without input from the author. How convenient. He was sitting on a massive admission because it "didn't fit the style".