5 ms·

Perhaps I am not understanding the implications, but is Google supposed to be forced to make its phones available in Turkey?

huffmsa 7y ago
> is Google supposed to be forced to make its phones available in Turkey Well yes, because free trade, globalization, equality and other buzzwords. /s The reality is that historical big companies have always sparred with nation-states. Usually the EIC, but occasionally other firms. They went roughly 50/50. "Won" in China. Lost in America. OPEC said "no oil for you" and it worked. And no one invaded or otherwise compelled them to sell oil to people they didn't like.
- matthewdgreen 7y ago
  > OPEC said "no oil for you" and it worked. And no one invaded or otherwise compelled them to sell oil to people they didn't like. This is like world history as told by Dreamworks.
  - huffmsa 7y ago
    They didn't invade immediately. And yes, it ultimately drove the west to start developing it's own oil resources and become less reliant on OPEC products, but that worked in the wests favor, as you would expect internal development of a Googledroid replacement to go for Turkey. Seems to be going okay for China. And the EIC ultimately lost influence in China and India and was no more. So it might be in a company's best interest to play nice with nation-states
matthewdgreen 7y ago
Google is perfectly capable of untying their search from Android via a software update, because that’s the remedy they already developed and use in Russia. Turkey is asking them to turn on the same capability. Google is saying they could but that they won’t, because Turkey isn’t a big enough country to make them. And yes, if Google is breaking US and international anti-trust laws, “forcing” people to do things is generally the remedy of last resort.
- tssva 7y ago
  Or perhaps the Russian market was large enough that the return on continued investment in it despite the required changes justified remaining in it and the Turkish market isn't large enough to justify continuing to invest in it.
  - matthewdgreen 7y ago
    What investment? Google already develops Android, they already developed the “untying” feature for Russia. What’s left? Turkish Localization? I find it hard to believe that even a 50% mobile search share in Turkey won’t pay those incremental costs. I find it much more believable that this is a simple pressure play.
    - Longlius 7y ago
      Ongoing support for the Turkish market. Technical support staff who can speak Turkish, documentation in the Turkish language, and a team of developers to handle Turkish-specific i18n bugs. None of these are 'incremental' costs.
      - matthewdgreen 7y ago
        My thinking is that if this argument is true, Google should be the one making it. They don’t need HN to “reverse engineer” a defense for them, particularly one that may not be factually correct.
        sangnoir 7y ago
        Please don't shift goalposts - you asked a question (on HN!), got an answer here (based on conjecture), and you now want an official Google response that breaks down the reasons?
        matthewdgreen 7y ago
        My point is simply that the conjecture seems difficult to believe on the face of it, but that I would be willing to revisit my beliefs if Google actually made the claim. The fact that Google has made no such claim makes it more difficult to take seriously. Edited to be more substantive.
josefx 7y ago
No, it really shouldn't. Which still leaves the question why it did in spite of the laws in the first place. Those aren't a recent addition, other countries with similar laws had already fined them in the past, resulting in rather localized licensing changes. So why did Google sell its phones in a country despite knowing that it was breaking laws with its current licensing agreements? The answer is most likely that profit > laws, so they did what they could get away with as long as they could. In my opinion those fines should be backdated to the day the EU found them in violation and they decided to limit the resulting changes to a single region.
tziki 7y ago
Dude you don't get it, google BAD!!!

huffmsa 7y ago

> is Google supposed to be forced to make its phones available in Turkey Well yes, because free trade, globalization, equality and other buzzwords. /s The reality is that historical big companies have always sparred with nation-states. Usually the EIC, but occasionally other firms. They went roughly 50/50. "Won" in China. Lost in America. OPEC said "no oil for you" and it worked. And no one invaded or otherwise compelled them to sell oil to people they didn't like.

matthewdgreen 7y ago
> OPEC said "no oil for you" and it worked. And no one invaded or otherwise compelled them to sell oil to people they didn't like. This is like world history as told by Dreamworks.
- huffmsa 7y ago
  They didn't invade immediately. And yes, it ultimately drove the west to start developing it's own oil resources and become less reliant on OPEC products, but that worked in the wests favor, as you would expect internal development of a Googledroid replacement to go for Turkey. Seems to be going okay for China. And the EIC ultimately lost influence in China and India and was no more. So it might be in a company's best interest to play nice with nation-states

matthewdgreen 7y ago

Google is perfectly capable of untying their search from Android via a software update, because that’s the remedy they already developed and use in Russia. Turkey is asking them to turn on the same capability. Google is saying they could but that they won’t, because Turkey isn’t a big enough country to make them. And yes, if Google is breaking US and international anti-trust laws, “forcing” people to do things is generally the remedy of last resort.

tssva 7y ago
Or perhaps the Russian market was large enough that the return on continued investment in it despite the required changes justified remaining in it and the Turkish market isn't large enough to justify continuing to invest in it.
- matthewdgreen 7y ago
  What investment? Google already develops Android, they already developed the “untying” feature for Russia. What’s left? Turkish Localization? I find it hard to believe that even a 50% mobile search share in Turkey won’t pay those incremental costs. I find it much more believable that this is a simple pressure play.
  - Longlius 7y ago
    Ongoing support for the Turkish market. Technical support staff who can speak Turkish, documentation in the Turkish language, and a team of developers to handle Turkish-specific i18n bugs. None of these are 'incremental' costs.
    - matthewdgreen 7y ago
      My thinking is that if this argument is true, Google should be the one making it. They don’t need HN to “reverse engineer” a defense for them, particularly one that may not be factually correct.
      - sangnoir 7y ago
        Please don't shift goalposts - you asked a question (on HN!), got an answer here (based on conjecture), and you now want an official Google response that breaks down the reasons?
        matthewdgreen 7y ago
        My point is simply that the conjecture seems difficult to believe on the face of it, but that I would be willing to revisit my beliefs if Google actually made the claim. The fact that Google has made no such claim makes it more difficult to take seriously. Edited to be more substantive.

josefx 7y ago

No, it really shouldn't. Which still leaves the question why it did in spite of the laws in the first place. Those aren't a recent addition, other countries with similar laws had already fined them in the past, resulting in rather localized licensing changes. So why did Google sell its phones in a country despite knowing that it was breaking laws with its current licensing agreements? The answer is most likely that profit > laws, so they did what they could get away with as long as they could. In my opinion those fines should be backdated to the day the EU found them in violation and they decided to limit the resulting changes to a single region.

tziki 7y ago

Dude you don't get it, google BAD!!!