3 ms·

It's not using Matrix? What's the point in making an open source however non federated IM service?

by shmerl 7y ago

detaro 7y ago
Many companies using such a system wouldn't even want federation, and it adds a bunch of complexity.
- shmerl 7y ago
  So run a local server and turn federation off. Like you can run a private e-mail server. Why not use and contribute to the common protocol that does allow federation? I see no point for a FOSS project in proliferating non federated IM protocols, and wasting resources on that, while federated ones still didn't even reach wide adoption.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Because then you're bound to the common protocol and it's development process, which is a waste if you have no intention of using federation.
    - shmerl 7y ago
      I view it the opposite way. It's waste of time to reinvent the wheel and not concentrate resources. Federated protocol can be used without federation fine, but not the other way around. For FOSS projects, not doing it is strange, especially when lack of adoption for federated options is still a major global problem. So I'd question the intent behind this particular project. For those who don't care about openness (like Slack), I'd expect such behavior. But for open projects - not really.
- kqr 7y ago
  That might be true for many companies, but I think also that many companies could benefit from federation -- they just don't know it. It has been standard practise everywhere I've worked that in business-to-business relations, people have to create accounts for each other's Slack networks. That is ridiculous. Imagine having to sign up for separate email accounts on the email servers of all of your customers. It just wouldn't be acceptable other than in extreme circumstances; you already have an email account -- why shouldn't you be able to email with your customers/suppliers/vendors from that? But we accept it with IM because we're so jaded by now. Though if federation was a more well understood concept, I'm sure multiple of the companies I've worked at would jump at the chance of not putting its business relations through the pain of registering dozens of accounts to IM with different people.

It's not using Matrix? What's the point in making an open source however non federated IM service?

by shmerl 7y ago

It's not using Matrix? What's the point in making an open source however non federated IM service?

detaro 7y ago

Many companies using such a system wouldn't even want federation, and it adds a bunch of complexity.

shmerl 7y ago
So run a local server and turn federation off. Like you can run a private e-mail server. Why not use and contribute to the common protocol that does allow federation? I see no point for a FOSS project in proliferating non federated IM protocols, and wasting resources on that, while federated ones still didn't even reach wide adoption.
- detaro 7y ago
  Because then you're bound to the common protocol and it's development process, which is a waste if you have no intention of using federation.
  - shmerl 7y ago
    I view it the opposite way. It's waste of time to reinvent the wheel and not concentrate resources. Federated protocol can be used without federation fine, but not the other way around. For FOSS projects, not doing it is strange, especially when lack of adoption for federated options is still a major global problem. So I'd question the intent behind this particular project. For those who don't care about openness (like Slack), I'd expect such behavior. But for open projects - not really.
kqr 7y ago
That might be true for many companies, but I think also that many companies could benefit from federation -- they just don't know it. It has been standard practise everywhere I've worked that in business-to-business relations, people have to create accounts for each other's Slack networks. That is ridiculous. Imagine having to sign up for separate email accounts on the email servers of all of your customers. It just wouldn't be acceptable other than in extreme circumstances; you already have an email account -- why shouldn't you be able to email with your customers/suppliers/vendors from that? But we accept it with IM because we're so jaded by now. Though if federation was a more well understood concept, I'm sure multiple of the companies I've worked at would jump at the chance of not putting its business relations through the pain of registering dozens of accounts to IM with different people.