3 ms·

(1) This really needs to be better explained. What is being proposed? Is it simply a matter of reorganization, with faculty and programs being moved to a differ

(1) This really needs to be better explained. What is being proposed? Is it simply a matter of reorganization, with faculty and programs being moved to a different administrative unit? Or is it the elimination of programs and classes? Or is it the elimination of positions, and the firing of tenured faculty, etc.? The first is mostly an internal matter, of little interest to the outside world. But the other two are more serious, and some of us out here might want to take an interest. More information, please. (2) The grievances need work, too. The first (Accreditation) is unclear. Even the complete elimination of a C.S. program is not going to stop the university from being accredited. On the other hand, if this is about program accreditation, then what is the issue? The part about CS being an integral part of any good university does not make sense. Do the writers think all students take CS courses? Most of the rest of the grievances amount to "Will we have the support necessary for the completion of our degrees?", which is certainly a worthwhile question for the students to ask. On the other hand, it is not one with any long-term impact on the university. But a couple of the grievances have great significance: "Enrollment has increased in the department in the last 2 years. How can the Dean justify this type of cut?" An excellent question. Also: "What are the facts behind this decision? It is well known that the CS department has more enrollment than other departments. So why CS is being dissolved?" This is what needs to be emphasized, I think.

rdtsc 16y ago
I agree it is very confusing. The university will keep its accreditation and if the program is eliminated what does accreditation even mean then? CS will probably just end up being merged with Computer Engineering again into some Computer Engineering and Computer Science department. Just like 4-5 years ago before it was split up. The biggest problem the way I see it, is that students might be _forced_ to switch programs, and end up having different requirements for graduation. That's what I would fear -- you took classes that now count for nothing and you now have to take (and pay for!) classes you didn't plan on taking. Mind you they already did this once when they switched CS from the College of Arts and Science to College of Engineering. They gave students a choice so they could either finish the degree they enrolled in or they could switch colleges. It wasn't that bad really. > The part about CS being an integral part of any good university does not make sense. Agree. They don't mention the main problem -- professors that don't care and don't do much and just suck resources out like parasites. I wonder if eliminating a department will provide a legal loophole to dump some undesirable tenured professors and replace them with some who really care about research and teaching.
- csisimportant 16y ago
  The proposal is to dissolve the CS department. According to the Dean, his "judgement call" places CS as "not a priority" for the future of UC. Therefore specific CS classes will no longer be taught. This effort is led by CS students. Clearly, the University of Cincinnati will not lose it's status. The accreditation, therefore, is related to the current College of Engineering, which was approved by the Ohio Board of Regents with the CS department. We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a strong CS department. I guess this is not so with either of you...
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    > We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a strong CS department. I guess this is not so with either of you... I understand your frustration, I went through the process when they switched to the College of Engineering (I refused so I graduated from McMicken). I doubt they will simply kick you out, they will have to let you graduate from the program they admitted you to. They will probably stop receiving new freshmen into the program. You are right, I do not see it as a big deal. You end up with the same professors there. Just switching names and departments a couple of times doesn't really matter. What's his name Schmidt is still going to do Celestial Mechanics no matter what Computer department you put him in. That's the real problem. > We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a strong CS department. Of course, because you are CS students. I am sure Nuclear Engineering students believe the University requires a strong Nuclear Engineering dept. -- it validates their choice and the huge investment of time and money. Back in the day I would have though the same thing (that's why I stayed in McMicken, I wanted to have CS on my diploma, looking back though, it didn't matter really). EDIT: As a side note. I think this all started with Zimpher. She is gone now, but it all started to go downhill with her. They built shops, stadiums, wasted money on crap while the govt. was subsidizing the student loans, increased tuition to astronomical proportions. While some colleges were printing tests in 7pt font, double-sided, because they didn't have money for paper. Look at this fucking shit: http://www.uc.edu/president/former_presidents/zimpher.html http://www.uc.edu/president/former_presidents/zimpher.html * $1.7 billion spent on stadiums and "Uptown Cincinnati". * "Established UC's new Center of City designed to facilitate innovative and productive partnerships that blah blah blah..." WTF does that even mean? I guess it means we wasted all the money ... Sorry, don't mind me I am getting old and jaded. You are doing a great thing by organizing your fellow students. Hopefully someone will listen to you. EDIT2: Also, don't forget UC is a public school, so you could try writing a petition to Columbus, it surely won't hurt. Especially if your parents are from Ohio and have been paying taxes there for the longest time.

rdtsc 16y ago

I agree it is very confusing. The university will keep its accreditation and if the program is eliminated what does accreditation even mean then? CS will probably just end up being merged with Computer Engineering again into some Computer Engineering and Computer Science department. Just like 4-5 years ago before it was split up. The biggest problem the way I see it, is that students might be _forced_ to switch programs, and end up having different requirements for graduation. That's what I would fear -- you took classes that now count for nothing and you now have to take (and pay for!) classes you didn't plan on taking. Mind you they already did this once when they switched CS from the College of Arts and Science to College of Engineering. They gave students a choice so they could either finish the degree they enrolled in or they could switch colleges. It wasn't that bad really. > The part about CS being an integral part of any good university does not make sense. Agree. They don't mention the main problem -- professors that don't care and don't do much and just suck resources out like parasites. I wonder if eliminating a department will provide a legal loophole to dump some undesirable tenured professors and replace them with some who really care about research and teaching.

csisimportant 16y ago
The proposal is to dissolve the CS department. According to the Dean, his "judgement call" places CS as "not a priority" for the future of UC. Therefore specific CS classes will no longer be taught. This effort is led by CS students. Clearly, the University of Cincinnati will not lose it's status. The accreditation, therefore, is related to the current College of Engineering, which was approved by the Ohio Board of Regents with the CS department. We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a strong CS department. I guess this is not so with either of you...
- rdtsc 16y ago
  > We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a strong CS department. I guess this is not so with either of you... I understand your frustration, I went through the process when they switched to the College of Engineering (I refused so I graduated from McMicken). I doubt they will simply kick you out, they will have to let you graduate from the program they admitted you to. They will probably stop receiving new freshmen into the program. You are right, I do not see it as a big deal. You end up with the same professors there. Just switching names and departments a couple of times doesn't really matter. What's his name Schmidt is still going to do Celestial Mechanics no matter what Computer department you put him in. That's the real problem. > We (the CS students) do believe that a good engineering school requires a strong CS department. Of course, because you are CS students. I am sure Nuclear Engineering students believe the University requires a strong Nuclear Engineering dept. -- it validates their choice and the huge investment of time and money. Back in the day I would have though the same thing (that's why I stayed in McMicken, I wanted to have CS on my diploma, looking back though, it didn't matter really). EDIT: As a side note. I think this all started with Zimpher. She is gone now, but it all started to go downhill with her. They built shops, stadiums, wasted money on crap while the govt. was subsidizing the student loans, increased tuition to astronomical proportions. While some colleges were printing tests in 7pt font, double-sided, because they didn't have money for paper. Look at this fucking shit: http://www.uc.edu/president/former_presidents/zimpher.html http://www.uc.edu/president/former_presidents/zimpher.html * $1.7 billion spent on stadiums and "Uptown Cincinnati". * "Established UC's new Center of City designed to facilitate innovative and productive partnerships that blah blah blah..." WTF does that even mean? I guess it means we wasted all the money ... Sorry, don't mind me I am getting old and jaded. You are doing a great thing by organizing your fellow students. Hopefully someone will listen to you. EDIT2: Also, don't forget UC is a public school, so you could try writing a petition to Columbus, it surely won't hurt. Especially if your parents are from Ohio and have been paying taxes there for the longest time.