7 ms·

What is "pre-elmoization" Sesame Street and why do you think it's better?

by shitloadofbooks 7y ago

op00to 7y ago
Elmo talked to children like babies. Before elmo, Sesame Street treated children as adults. They still do at times.
- ronilan 7y ago
  Come on. Elmo did some awesome music videos. With Norah Jones: https://youtu.be/FEzxchU4RUY https://youtu.be/FEzxchU4RUY With Katy Perry: https://youtu.be/PwZnCkoX5gI https://youtu.be/PwZnCkoX5gI And my absolute favorite, better than the original, with the Goo Goo Dolls: https://youtu.be/uGohKgNOXnU https://youtu.be/uGohKgNOXnU Edit... but... yes... the Elmo Numa Numa tops everything: https://youtu.be/2rAKszSX2tU https://youtu.be/2rAKszSX2tU (which btw, was indeed uploaded 11 years ago, but I think has an erroneous view count..)
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    Children's entertainment from the Mr. Rodgers era combined lessons from therapy and child psychology to act as a supplement for parenting. I'm not sure what it is now, and it's especially confusing to me why PBS would be so interested in merchandising when they're supposedly a government agency.
    - darkengine 7y ago
      PBS receives some funding from the US government, however it is an independent non-profit corporation. My guess is they are trying to generate much-needed funds from toy sales, as well as compete for eyeballs with other more engaging children's programming ("bombardment" as Fred Rogers once called it).
    - js2 7y ago
      PBS is not a government agency. It's a non-profit funded in part (about 50%) by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. The rest of its funding is through donations and sponsorships. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is also a non-profit, funded solely by the federal government, but is independent from PBS and doesn't produce any programming.
  - js2 7y ago
    Those all make the OP's point - none of them has grown-up lyrics. Compare to Dave Matthews and Grover singing about feelings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5lHYJJQfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5lHYJJQfw
    - ronilan 7y ago
      “Everybody make like a train now” https://youtu.be/E4TRvYAyt3k https://youtu.be/E4TRvYAyt3k
      - js2 7y ago
        That's not Sesame Street. The Sesame Street Muppets were unique to the show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sesame_Street_Muppets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sesame_Street_Muppets Here's Johnny Cash on Sesame Street: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75eQX006jA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75eQX006jA
        ronilan 7y ago
        “Come on you guys, Let’s have a beach party” https://youtu.be/yUcWNz4YXlA https://youtu.be/yUcWNz4YXlA
        hindsightbias 7y ago
        All good, but the Stevie Wonder episode changed my life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE
        op00to 7y ago
        apparently your take on childrens TV is wrong! i hope you are sufficiently corrected!
  - Wistar 7y ago
    Ah, that Nora Jones piece is gold.
shantly 7y ago
Big Bird used to clearly be the "main" or primary point-of-view character. He behaved somewhat older than the lower range of the target audience and so was a good aspirational, but not unrelatably-old, character for them. Then Elmo became highly bankable (Tickle Me Elmo) and they leaned hard on him. Elmo is... not as good for modeling behavior and interactions.
- bluetwo 7y ago
  I thought you were talking about the scandal involving the Elmo voice actor...
  - drdeadringer 7y ago
    IIRC, the scandal was baseless. I welcome corrections.
- corodra 7y ago
  Something else about big bird, his costume is crazy expensive for upkeep. They have a high standard of quality for feathers, and the longer, iconic feathers are both delicate and expensive. Theres a good reason his screen time and physical interactions have been scaled back. Elmo was a perfect replacement, but was also an accident character. Cant blame them for their choices in my opinion.
bcrosby95 7y ago
Because kids don't learn anything from Elmo, especially when he's running the show. He represents a child at their pinnacle of overtly bad behavior problems: a toddler. He's pure entertainment: loud, bright red, and obnoxious. Obviously kids love it.
- dbtx 7y ago
  I have exactly one lasting memory of Elmo from the 90s. He was yelling random things such as "belly button! belly button!" until some adults stopped him and walked him through the definition of the word "important". So... yeah, you nailed it.
Spellman 7y ago
For a reference essay on the shift from Big Bird to Elmo: https://kotaku.com/how-elmo-ruined-sesame-street-1746504585 https://kotaku.com/how-elmo-ruined-sesame-street-1746504585 Major thesis: "It started in small ways. A lot of stories used to be based around Big Bird, who was psychologically characterized as a six-year-old. And in a lot of ways, this was ideal—six years old was on the older end of Sesame Street’s age demographic, and Big Bird served as both a role model and a peer to his audience. Big Bird’s comparative maturity also meant that he could project a wide range of emotions—he was ‘old enough’ to understand mature concepts, such as the permanence of Mr. Hooper’s death." "Elmo stories, on the other hand, tend to affirm and celebrate the child’s perspective. Rarely, if ever, is Elmo’s innocence challenged, or is he forced to think about someone’s happiness other than his own. He spends most of his time hanging out with Zoe, Abby, Telly, and Baby Bear—Muppets who share his emotional maturity, and unlike Grover, Kermit, and Ernie, do nothing to push him. In fact, he is the de facto leader of his group—the dialogue lowers to Elmo’s level, rather than rising to an older character’s. And while this is cute and fun, it gets old fast, and it doesn’t really go anywhere. Elmo is learning about counting to four and different shapes, but he’s not learning a whole lot of life lessons."
- jay_kyburz 7y ago
  I caught a few episodes a few years ago (my youngest is 6 now) and there were a few "lessons" that I though just wrong and I didn't want my kids learning. The only one I can remember was this episode where they were stacking lots and lots of hats on somebodies head. They were banging on and on about "guessing" how many hats were on his head. Don't count, just guess. It was bugging me.
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Estimation is a very useful skill.
    - krustyburger 7y ago
      Not in my estimation.
  - 7y ago

What is "pre-elmoization" Sesame Street and why do you think it's better?

op00to 7y ago

Elmo talked to children like babies. Before elmo, Sesame Street treated children as adults. They still do at times.

ronilan 7y ago
Come on. Elmo did some awesome music videos. With Norah Jones: https://youtu.be/FEzxchU4RUY https://youtu.be/FEzxchU4RUY With Katy Perry: https://youtu.be/PwZnCkoX5gI https://youtu.be/PwZnCkoX5gI And my absolute favorite, better than the original, with the Goo Goo Dolls: https://youtu.be/uGohKgNOXnU https://youtu.be/uGohKgNOXnU Edit... but... yes... the Elmo Numa Numa tops everything: https://youtu.be/2rAKszSX2tU https://youtu.be/2rAKszSX2tU (which btw, was indeed uploaded 11 years ago, but I think has an erroneous view count..)
- whatshisface 7y ago
  Children's entertainment from the Mr. Rodgers era combined lessons from therapy and child psychology to act as a supplement for parenting. I'm not sure what it is now, and it's especially confusing to me why PBS would be so interested in merchandising when they're supposedly a government agency.
  - darkengine 7y ago
    PBS receives some funding from the US government, however it is an independent non-profit corporation. My guess is they are trying to generate much-needed funds from toy sales, as well as compete for eyeballs with other more engaging children's programming ("bombardment" as Fred Rogers once called it).
  - js2 7y ago
    PBS is not a government agency. It's a non-profit funded in part (about 50%) by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. The rest of its funding is through donations and sponsorships. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is also a non-profit, funded solely by the federal government, but is independent from PBS and doesn't produce any programming.
- js2 7y ago
  Those all make the OP's point - none of them has grown-up lyrics. Compare to Dave Matthews and Grover singing about feelings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5lHYJJQfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5lHYJJQfw
  - ronilan 7y ago
    “Everybody make like a train now” https://youtu.be/E4TRvYAyt3k https://youtu.be/E4TRvYAyt3k
    - js2 7y ago
      That's not Sesame Street. The Sesame Street Muppets were unique to the show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sesame_Street_Muppets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sesame_Street_Muppets Here's Johnny Cash on Sesame Street: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75eQX006jA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75eQX006jA
      - ronilan 7y ago
        “Come on you guys, Let’s have a beach party” https://youtu.be/yUcWNz4YXlA https://youtu.be/yUcWNz4YXlA
      - hindsightbias 7y ago
        All good, but the Stevie Wonder episode changed my life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul7X5js1vE
      - op00to 7y ago
        apparently your take on childrens TV is wrong! i hope you are sufficiently corrected!
- Wistar 7y ago
  Ah, that Nora Jones piece is gold.

shantly 7y ago

Big Bird used to clearly be the "main" or primary point-of-view character. He behaved somewhat older than the lower range of the target audience and so was a good aspirational, but not unrelatably-old, character for them. Then Elmo became highly bankable (Tickle Me Elmo) and they leaned hard on him. Elmo is... not as good for modeling behavior and interactions.

bluetwo 7y ago
I thought you were talking about the scandal involving the Elmo voice actor...
- drdeadringer 7y ago
  IIRC, the scandal was baseless. I welcome corrections.
corodra 7y ago
Something else about big bird, his costume is crazy expensive for upkeep. They have a high standard of quality for feathers, and the longer, iconic feathers are both delicate and expensive. Theres a good reason his screen time and physical interactions have been scaled back. Elmo was a perfect replacement, but was also an accident character. Cant blame them for their choices in my opinion.

bcrosby95 7y ago

Because kids don't learn anything from Elmo, especially when he's running the show. He represents a child at their pinnacle of overtly bad behavior problems: a toddler. He's pure entertainment: loud, bright red, and obnoxious. Obviously kids love it.

dbtx 7y ago
I have exactly one lasting memory of Elmo from the 90s. He was yelling random things such as "belly button! belly button!" until some adults stopped him and walked him through the definition of the word "important". So... yeah, you nailed it.

Spellman 7y ago

For a reference essay on the shift from Big Bird to Elmo: https://kotaku.com/how-elmo-ruined-sesame-street-1746504585 https://kotaku.com/how-elmo-ruined-sesame-street-1746504585 Major thesis: "It started in small ways. A lot of stories used to be based around Big Bird, who was psychologically characterized as a six-year-old. And in a lot of ways, this was ideal—six years old was on the older end of Sesame Street’s age demographic, and Big Bird served as both a role model and a peer to his audience. Big Bird’s comparative maturity also meant that he could project a wide range of emotions—he was ‘old enough’ to understand mature concepts, such as the permanence of Mr. Hooper’s death." "Elmo stories, on the other hand, tend to affirm and celebrate the child’s perspective. Rarely, if ever, is Elmo’s innocence challenged, or is he forced to think about someone’s happiness other than his own. He spends most of his time hanging out with Zoe, Abby, Telly, and Baby Bear—Muppets who share his emotional maturity, and unlike Grover, Kermit, and Ernie, do nothing to push him. In fact, he is the de facto leader of his group—the dialogue lowers to Elmo’s level, rather than rising to an older character’s. And while this is cute and fun, it gets old fast, and it doesn’t really go anywhere. Elmo is learning about counting to four and different shapes, but he’s not learning a whole lot of life lessons."

jay_kyburz 7y ago
I caught a few episodes a few years ago (my youngest is 6 now) and there were a few "lessons" that I though just wrong and I didn't want my kids learning. The only one I can remember was this episode where they were stacking lots and lots of hats on somebodies head. They were banging on and on about "guessing" how many hats were on his head. Don't count, just guess. It was bugging me.
- TylerE 7y ago
  Estimation is a very useful skill.
  - krustyburger 7y ago
    Not in my estimation.
- 7y ago