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I’ve worked in and traveled around the US for a few years ( Nashville, San Antonio, Palo Alto, SF, Portland, Houston, Atlanta). I left the US in 2014 and haven’

I’ve worked in and traveled around the US for a few years ( Nashville, San Antonio, Palo Alto, SF, Portland, Houston, Atlanta). I left the US in 2014 and haven’t returned since then. I can share that the horror stories I read about the current US politics, climate change denial, police excesses, homelessness and the related squalor have reduced my interest in considering the US as a long term home :( I’d rather innovate in other countries that are friendly and safer ( I’m in Singapore now). I work with a PhD in mechanical engineering, who shares my views about the US not being a Long term place to stay at ( at least based on current status). The rest of the world used to see the US as a leader, as a peace keeper. Now, not at all. :(

umvi 7y ago
It's very difficult to stay a benevolent superpower forever. Very few countries have done it for long. Most superpowers end up being ruled by corrupt totalitarian regimes if you look at historical examples. Not sure what made USA change for the worse or if it has just been a slow decline.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  I'm not sure if you're serious. It's Trump and his administration. It's not even a question, from the perspective of this submission. He has made it 1) much harder to get work visas, like anyone hiring top international talent knows 2) has created an environment of increased xenophobia that has led to quantitative increases in hate crimes 3) generally behaves like a strong man which undermines faith (justifiably) in the stability of the country and economy. Just for instance today, among other things "Would be sooo great if the Fed would further lower interest rates and quantitative ease. The Dollar is very strong against other currencies and there is almost no inflation. This is the time to do it. Exports would zoom!" (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1206955356280279040v https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12069553562802790...). People have short memories, but 3 years ago it would have been inconceivable that a president would post something that insane on multiple levels on social media. Our problems attracting international talent in all areas are increasing, self-inflicted, and justified. edit: I'm sorry we can't discuss this maturely. But it's the elephant in the room.
  - atlasunshrugged 7y ago
    I don't disagree that Trump created a much worse environment for attracting talent from the visa process to general perception of the US but I think quite a few issues that make people hesitate about trying to move to the US came before him. I'm thinking about the difficulty of navigating most areas without owning a car, issues with healthcare, gun control, etc.
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  - threatofrain 7y ago
    Well it's a democracy, so surely the people aren't blameless.
    - zafka 7y ago
      Actually it is not a democracy, nor was it ever designed to be one. Many people did allow themselves to be used though. It is pretty amazing how well propaganda works. I try to do periodic self checks, and I am still pretty sure that I have some mistaken beliefs that wormed their way into my head by stealth and/or repetition.
  - TurkishPoptart 7y ago
    > He has made it 1) much harder to get work visas, like anyone hiring top international talent knows I sure as hell hope so. We have enough people here trying to get decent-paying, full-time jobs. Americans should receive priority in America. > has created an environment of increased xenophobia that has led to quantitative increases in hate crimes Maybe, but that's not BECAUSE of it being "much harder to get work visas". > generally behaves like a strong man which undermines faith (justifiably) in the stability of the country and economy. Yeah, he's a shitstain on this country, but these problems precede his presidency.
commandlinefan 7y ago
> I’m in Singapore now https://immiguides.com/immigration-guides/singapore/ https://immiguides.com/immigration-guides/singapore/ - Singaporean citizens of Chinese heritage tend to enjoy preferred treatment over their Malay and Indian counterparts. Examples of overt discrimination include employment ads specifying that someone must be of Chinese origin to apply. - the Singaporean government censors sexual, political, religious, and racially sensitive material. Lawsuits are often used to quiet dissidents. Journalists often self-censor, to limit their legal liability. This also limits the development and prevalence of non-commercial art - members of the LGBT community face discrimination in Singapore. Male on male sex is illegal. It is difficult for members of the LGBT community to find housing (landlord discrimination). - punishments commonly involve caning and long prison sentences.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  Isn't it sad that, in spite of what you described, the US is perceived as substantially worse than Singapore by people around the world? Via https://www.reputationinstitute.com/country-reptrak https://www.reputationinstitute.com/country-reptrak - Singapore is 20, US is 34.
  - tom812 7y ago
    That's simply because the press and academia in the USA are extremely biased towards one political side. Most of the people who think the current political or social state of the USA is horrible have never opened a single book about asian, african or eastern europe policies. While everyone is formatted to be shocked by what is going on in the USA, they refuse to even see that torture (including citizens) and hardcorde censorship is routine and legal in a lot of asian countries.
    - Spooky23 7y ago
      Most Americans have had an expectation of American Exceptionalism. To quote John F Kennedy: “I have been guided by the standard John Winthrop set before his shipmates on the flagship Arabella (sic) three hundred and thirty-one years ago, as they, too, faced the task of building a new government on a perilous frontier. "We must always consider", he said, "that we shall be as a city upon a hill—the eyes of all people are upon us". Today the eyes of all people are truly upon us—and our governments, in every branch, at every level, national, state and local, must be as a city upon a hill—constructed and inhabited by men aware of their great trust and their great responsibilities.”
tick_tock_tick 7y ago
People are so in love with the idea of America failing that they can't see the reality of how the world has becoming progressively more depended upon it.
- rublev 7y ago
  The US has raped every nation abroad for resources. None of this is "natural" or humane or moral. The US is a landlocked imperial force that can act with impunity.
atlasunshrugged 7y ago
I guess I could see Singapore for the quality of life if I was non LGBT or not of a race that might face issues but as other people mentioned below there are a few issues about Singapore that would also make me not rank it highly. That said, I'm an American who left the US some years ago and lived in Berlin/Tallinn and worked remote around a lot of Europe. For sure quality of life is generally better in Europe in my opinion and I can understand why lots of people are choosing say Paris or London (Brexit aside) rather than SF. Except for people in Eastern Europe almost all Europeans also wonder why people want to live in the U.S. - my common response is that I would go to the U.S. if I wanted to compete to be in the .01% elite and be able to reap the unrestricted gains of such. If I didn't have a burning desire to try to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, go to Harvard, start the next Google and instead just wanted to live a "normal" life with work/life balance then I would prefer to live in Europe
- zarkov99 7y ago
  Former European here. I came to the US for grad school, then went back home to Europe and I could not wait to return to the US. I still love Europe for the culture, history and food but the US has nature, limitless opportunity, optimism, dynamism and in general a sense of abundance, self-reliance freedom and space that I do not feel in Europe.
m0zg 7y ago
I'm not entirely sure why the US was seen as a "peace keeper". It was at war pretty much non-stop since WW2, wasting trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of civilian lives in the process, and now that Trump is shutting this shit down people are coming out of the woodwork and say we should be the "peace keeper" and continue bombing other people forever. Oh, and we better do it on our own dime, too.
ishjoh 7y ago
I'm an immigrant to the USA from a different western country and I think the US media is just further along in creating clickbait than most other western countries. Part of that is likely because unlike many western countries the USA does not have a major government-funded media outlet. The stories in the media are always tilted towards outrage, fear, or hate because those base emotions are what drive clicks. The reality on the ground is much different. I often travel for work so I spend time in lots of different major US cities, they are clean, have low crime, and American's are generally very friendly. Granted I don't travel to the worst parts of major US cities, but I've travelled enough places in the world to know that in some cities all the parts are dangerous, and we're a long way from that.

umvi 7y ago

It's very difficult to stay a benevolent superpower forever. Very few countries have done it for long. Most superpowers end up being ruled by corrupt totalitarian regimes if you look at historical examples. Not sure what made USA change for the worse or if it has just been a slow decline.

throwaway5752 7y ago
I'm not sure if you're serious. It's Trump and his administration. It's not even a question, from the perspective of this submission. He has made it 1) much harder to get work visas, like anyone hiring top international talent knows 2) has created an environment of increased xenophobia that has led to quantitative increases in hate crimes 3) generally behaves like a strong man which undermines faith (justifiably) in the stability of the country and economy. Just for instance today, among other things "Would be sooo great if the Fed would further lower interest rates and quantitative ease. The Dollar is very strong against other currencies and there is almost no inflation. This is the time to do it. Exports would zoom!" (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1206955356280279040v https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12069553562802790...). People have short memories, but 3 years ago it would have been inconceivable that a president would post something that insane on multiple levels on social media. Our problems attracting international talent in all areas are increasing, self-inflicted, and justified. edit: I'm sorry we can't discuss this maturely. But it's the elephant in the room.
- atlasunshrugged 7y ago
  I don't disagree that Trump created a much worse environment for attracting talent from the visa process to general perception of the US but I think quite a few issues that make people hesitate about trying to move to the US came before him. I'm thinking about the difficulty of navigating most areas without owning a car, issues with healthcare, gun control, etc.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- threatofrain 7y ago
  Well it's a democracy, so surely the people aren't blameless.
  - zafka 7y ago
    Actually it is not a democracy, nor was it ever designed to be one. Many people did allow themselves to be used though. It is pretty amazing how well propaganda works. I try to do periodic self checks, and I am still pretty sure that I have some mistaken beliefs that wormed their way into my head by stealth and/or repetition.
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  > He has made it 1) much harder to get work visas, like anyone hiring top international talent knows I sure as hell hope so. We have enough people here trying to get decent-paying, full-time jobs. Americans should receive priority in America. > has created an environment of increased xenophobia that has led to quantitative increases in hate crimes Maybe, but that's not BECAUSE of it being "much harder to get work visas". > generally behaves like a strong man which undermines faith (justifiably) in the stability of the country and economy. Yeah, he's a shitstain on this country, but these problems precede his presidency.

commandlinefan 7y ago

> I’m in Singapore now https://immiguides.com/immigration-guides/singapore/ https://immiguides.com/immigration-guides/singapore/ - Singaporean citizens of Chinese heritage tend to enjoy preferred treatment over their Malay and Indian counterparts. Examples of overt discrimination include employment ads specifying that someone must be of Chinese origin to apply. - the Singaporean government censors sexual, political, religious, and racially sensitive material. Lawsuits are often used to quiet dissidents. Journalists often self-censor, to limit their legal liability. This also limits the development and prevalence of non-commercial art - members of the LGBT community face discrimination in Singapore. Male on male sex is illegal. It is difficult for members of the LGBT community to find housing (landlord discrimination). - punishments commonly involve caning and long prison sentences.

throwaway5752 7y ago
Isn't it sad that, in spite of what you described, the US is perceived as substantially worse than Singapore by people around the world? Via https://www.reputationinstitute.com/country-reptrak https://www.reputationinstitute.com/country-reptrak - Singapore is 20, US is 34.
- tom812 7y ago
  That's simply because the press and academia in the USA are extremely biased towards one political side. Most of the people who think the current political or social state of the USA is horrible have never opened a single book about asian, african or eastern europe policies. While everyone is formatted to be shocked by what is going on in the USA, they refuse to even see that torture (including citizens) and hardcorde censorship is routine and legal in a lot of asian countries.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    Most Americans have had an expectation of American Exceptionalism. To quote John F Kennedy: “I have been guided by the standard John Winthrop set before his shipmates on the flagship Arabella (sic) three hundred and thirty-one years ago, as they, too, faced the task of building a new government on a perilous frontier. "We must always consider", he said, "that we shall be as a city upon a hill—the eyes of all people are upon us". Today the eyes of all people are truly upon us—and our governments, in every branch, at every level, national, state and local, must be as a city upon a hill—constructed and inhabited by men aware of their great trust and their great responsibilities.”

tick_tock_tick 7y ago

People are so in love with the idea of America failing that they can't see the reality of how the world has becoming progressively more depended upon it.

rublev 7y ago
The US has raped every nation abroad for resources. None of this is "natural" or humane or moral. The US is a landlocked imperial force that can act with impunity.

atlasunshrugged 7y ago

I guess I could see Singapore for the quality of life if I was non LGBT or not of a race that might face issues but as other people mentioned below there are a few issues about Singapore that would also make me not rank it highly. That said, I'm an American who left the US some years ago and lived in Berlin/Tallinn and worked remote around a lot of Europe. For sure quality of life is generally better in Europe in my opinion and I can understand why lots of people are choosing say Paris or London (Brexit aside) rather than SF. Except for people in Eastern Europe almost all Europeans also wonder why people want to live in the U.S. - my common response is that I would go to the U.S. if I wanted to compete to be in the .01% elite and be able to reap the unrestricted gains of such. If I didn't have a burning desire to try to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, go to Harvard, start the next Google and instead just wanted to live a "normal" life with work/life balance then I would prefer to live in Europe

zarkov99 7y ago
Former European here. I came to the US for grad school, then went back home to Europe and I could not wait to return to the US. I still love Europe for the culture, history and food but the US has nature, limitless opportunity, optimism, dynamism and in general a sense of abundance, self-reliance freedom and space that I do not feel in Europe.

m0zg 7y ago

I'm not entirely sure why the US was seen as a "peace keeper". It was at war pretty much non-stop since WW2, wasting trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of civilian lives in the process, and now that Trump is shutting this shit down people are coming out of the woodwork and say we should be the "peace keeper" and continue bombing other people forever. Oh, and we better do it on our own dime, too.

ishjoh 7y ago

I'm an immigrant to the USA from a different western country and I think the US media is just further along in creating clickbait than most other western countries. Part of that is likely because unlike many western countries the USA does not have a major government-funded media outlet. The stories in the media are always tilted towards outrage, fear, or hate because those base emotions are what drive clicks. The reality on the ground is much different. I often travel for work so I spend time in lots of different major US cities, they are clean, have low crime, and American's are generally very friendly. Granted I don't travel to the worst parts of major US cities, but I've travelled enough places in the world to know that in some cities all the parts are dangerous, and we're a long way from that.