3 ms·

This is definitely a problem. We're going on almost four years of FT8 and the forums are still dripping with contempt for most digital modes and FT8 specificall

This is definitely a problem. We're going on almost four years of FT8 and the forums are still dripping with contempt for most digital modes and FT8 specifically.

Amicius 7y ago
I think something that could draw in a LOT of people -- and be an awesome STEM tool -- would be non-cost-prohibitive VHF and UHF SDR radios that can be easily controlled wirelessly (Bluetooth, WiFi, or both) and allow for any number of modulations from standard FM as is used on 2m/70cm, analog slow-scan TV, digital TV, digital voice, data and more. Heck, the creation of a handshake protocol that starts as AX.25 and the stations identify a switch-to protocol would be great, and since it's digital and we're assuming SDR, that handshake could be "Oh, you don't have the ABC123XYZ codec? I'll send it to you now!" Yes... trusting a CODEC from an unverified source could be dangerous but that's part of the fun of experimentation!
- AWildC182 7y ago
  I think such things are coming very soon. VHF in particular is really easy to design for as the direct sampling SDR components supporting that band can be had cheaply. You can go on digikey.com right now and spec out a pretty nice pipeline without too much difficulty.
AWildC182 7y ago
Honestly, we can totally ignore the previous generation. This has been a sticking point for a lot of people but at the end of the day they are irrelevant and aren't going to be around much longer. There are also a lot of them that welcome the new systems and bemoan their peers for not wanting to build anything anymore but an angry minority tends to get the most attention. At the end of the day, analog modes aren't going anywhere and the old curmudgeons have no administrative power to prevent people from using newer modes and otherwise enjoying the available bandwidth as defined by the regulations.
- m0xte 7y ago
  I think this attitude is wrong. This is a hobby. There are a few constraints on what you can do with it due to licensing and that's about it. Whatever happens is fine be it cranking CW out on a one tube transmitter on 80m, pushing the envelope on digital modes on 134 GHz or talking about tomatoes on a local 2m repeater. That is choice. What is important is we stop pissing on each other's interests and longevity and trying to restrict choice. It builds resentment and that resentment is loud and destructive. At the time I did my full license, in 2018, there was a large interest in "old modes" because it's an escape from daily complexity in technical professions.
  - AWildC182 7y ago
    I think in a way we're saying the same thing... No individual should be burdened by the interests of another, thought there is a very vocal group that wants to complain about the interests of others. As I see it, it's safe to disregard the views of this group if your views don't align with theirs.
    - m0xte 7y ago
      If that's the case, I agree. Recipe for success for me is staying away from clubs, 80m and QRZ.com :)
      - AWildC182 7y ago
        Yea, I do the same. I recently went to the trouble of enlarging my magloop diameter to hit 80m not knowing any better, then promptly regretted it. There are some clubs in the CO front range that are pretty progressive though. I just don't have the time to go to meetings right now.
nullc 7y ago
The contempt for FT8 is that it's more or less exclusively a contesting mode. Essentially all you can do with it is ping other users. Many hams find contesting traffic to be a nuisance.
- sliken 7y ago
  Heh, indeed. With minor tweaks (I've seen the patches floating around) making contacts can be fully automated. It's much like the early days of the internet when people would tail -f /var/log/http/access.log and keep track of how many countries contacted their webserver. At least there's not a js8call which gasp actually allows keyboard to keyboard chat. Even allows relaying through a 3rd party as well as async communications through a storage and forward process.

This is definitely a problem. We're going on almost four years of FT8 and the forums are still dripping with contempt for most digital modes and FT8 specifically.

Amicius 7y ago

I think something that could draw in a LOT of people -- and be an awesome STEM tool -- would be non-cost-prohibitive VHF and UHF SDR radios that can be easily controlled wirelessly (Bluetooth, WiFi, or both) and allow for any number of modulations from standard FM as is used on 2m/70cm, analog slow-scan TV, digital TV, digital voice, data and more. Heck, the creation of a handshake protocol that starts as AX.25 and the stations identify a switch-to protocol would be great, and since it's digital and we're assuming SDR, that handshake could be "Oh, you don't have the ABC123XYZ codec? I'll send it to you now!" Yes... trusting a CODEC from an unverified source could be dangerous but that's part of the fun of experimentation!

AWildC182 7y ago
I think such things are coming very soon. VHF in particular is really easy to design for as the direct sampling SDR components supporting that band can be had cheaply. You can go on digikey.com right now and spec out a pretty nice pipeline without too much difficulty.

AWildC182 7y ago

Honestly, we can totally ignore the previous generation. This has been a sticking point for a lot of people but at the end of the day they are irrelevant and aren't going to be around much longer. There are also a lot of them that welcome the new systems and bemoan their peers for not wanting to build anything anymore but an angry minority tends to get the most attention. At the end of the day, analog modes aren't going anywhere and the old curmudgeons have no administrative power to prevent people from using newer modes and otherwise enjoying the available bandwidth as defined by the regulations.

m0xte 7y ago
I think this attitude is wrong. This is a hobby. There are a few constraints on what you can do with it due to licensing and that's about it. Whatever happens is fine be it cranking CW out on a one tube transmitter on 80m, pushing the envelope on digital modes on 134 GHz or talking about tomatoes on a local 2m repeater. That is choice. What is important is we stop pissing on each other's interests and longevity and trying to restrict choice. It builds resentment and that resentment is loud and destructive. At the time I did my full license, in 2018, there was a large interest in "old modes" because it's an escape from daily complexity in technical professions.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  I think in a way we're saying the same thing... No individual should be burdened by the interests of another, thought there is a very vocal group that wants to complain about the interests of others. As I see it, it's safe to disregard the views of this group if your views don't align with theirs.
  - m0xte 7y ago
    If that's the case, I agree. Recipe for success for me is staying away from clubs, 80m and QRZ.com :)
    - AWildC182 7y ago
      Yea, I do the same. I recently went to the trouble of enlarging my magloop diameter to hit 80m not knowing any better, then promptly regretted it. There are some clubs in the CO front range that are pretty progressive though. I just don't have the time to go to meetings right now.

nullc 7y ago

The contempt for FT8 is that it's more or less exclusively a contesting mode. Essentially all you can do with it is ping other users. Many hams find contesting traffic to be a nuisance.

sliken 7y ago
Heh, indeed. With minor tweaks (I've seen the patches floating around) making contacts can be fully automated. It's much like the early days of the internet when people would tail -f /var/log/http/access.log and keep track of how many countries contacted their webserver. At least there's not a js8call which gasp actually allows keyboard to keyboard chat. Even allows relaying through a 3rd party as well as async communications through a storage and forward process.