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I am not kidding. You are posting a very typical left wing way of thinking where you have a hard time believing people can both exist and fundamentally disagre

I am not kidding. You are posting a very typical left wing way of thinking where you have a hard time believing people can both exist and fundamentally disagree with you. You hope they don't really mean it, or at least they are Christians so you have something unintellectual to blame (I am not). You are advocating some kind of "tolerance" of primitive cultures (consisting largely of non-intervention which is rather different than tolerance) but you have have no tolerance of opposing viewpoints within your own culture. I did not advocate forced conversion. That you refuse to differentiate between access to better ideas and depriving them of their rights is a straw man.

krschultz 16y ago
I don't see what's left wing about it. The basic premise of conservatism is that government should be limited, and that its primary role should be to protect people's rights from other people, the government, and other governments. Obviously, these people have a right to their property. It is being encroached upon. The issue is not, should we go through the jungle and make conversation? The issue is if Peru should allow the destruction of this group of people's property by farmers. There is nothing liberal about saying that the government should be protecting the property of these people. We have already in essence made contact. They have seen an airplane or helicopter taking a picture of them. They are all clearly looking at the camera. They know there is a world out there that they aren't a part of because they certaintly can't fly and other people can. That could make them do things they would not have done if they had not seen the airplane, so we have shattered their world view already. What I'm more interested in is if they want to keep their land or not. There are plenty of tribes in the world who know about the real world, and choose to stay in their own way of life. There was an entire American TV series about this, they brought people from tropical islands to the US and showed them everything, and most of them chose to go back. I think these people should have a choice as well, but that choice will not be there for them if their forest is destroyed.
Vivtek 16y ago
Very typical left wing way of thinking? I'm staying out of this slugfest because there's no way anybody will end up edified by it - but in what possible way can you characterize philosophical intolerance as an exclusively left-wing trait? That's just weird.
- wazoox 16y ago
  Because he sees himself as right-wing, so anyone disagreeing must be a socialist; therefore he's falling in the very trap he warned his opponent of. Funnily recursive indeed.
  - xenophanes 16y ago
    You're wrong. I do not self-identify as right wing. I dislike most of the right wing. I said some stuff is left wing b/c left wing ppl so often believe it.
    - wazoox 16y ago
      OK, so you dislike right wing, and apparently despise left-wing. So what are you, apolitical? I have news for you : people calling themselves apolitical usually are right wing, preferably of the wingnut/fascistic category :) Sorry to bother you. What kills me is that it's almost impossible to have a good coherent political discussion on usenet, forums, whatever. It devolves incredibly fast in flamebait, and that's a pity. That would be a great startup idea : invent a forum system that allows proper, reasonable and contradictory political discussions but somehow avoids the Godwin malediction. Am I asking too much?
      - xenophanes 16y ago
        If you want a political discussion try here: http://groups.google.com/group/rational-politics-list/ http://groups.google.com/group/rational-politics-list/ Or email me. I'm a (classical) liberal. This does not fit into the "political spectrum" very well. You might think that being pro-capitalism is right wing but most of the mainstream right wing is not really capitalist and doesn't have that much in common with me. They also do stuff like oppose abortions and gays, favor traditional/conservative values, etc (ugh)
        wazoox 16y ago
        As you know, "right" and "left" aren't that meaningful, conservative vs progressive, authoritarian vs liberal are probably more significant oppositions. I'll have a look to the group.

krschultz 16y ago

I don't see what's left wing about it. The basic premise of conservatism is that government should be limited, and that its primary role should be to protect people's rights from other people, the government, and other governments. Obviously, these people have a right to their property. It is being encroached upon. The issue is not, should we go through the jungle and make conversation? The issue is if Peru should allow the destruction of this group of people's property by farmers. There is nothing liberal about saying that the government should be protecting the property of these people. We have already in essence made contact. They have seen an airplane or helicopter taking a picture of them. They are all clearly looking at the camera. They know there is a world out there that they aren't a part of because they certaintly can't fly and other people can. That could make them do things they would not have done if they had not seen the airplane, so we have shattered their world view already. What I'm more interested in is if they want to keep their land or not. There are plenty of tribes in the world who know about the real world, and choose to stay in their own way of life. There was an entire American TV series about this, they brought people from tropical islands to the US and showed them everything, and most of them chose to go back. I think these people should have a choice as well, but that choice will not be there for them if their forest is destroyed.

Vivtek 16y ago

Very typical left wing way of thinking? I'm staying out of this slugfest because there's no way anybody will end up edified by it - but in what possible way can you characterize philosophical intolerance as an exclusively left-wing trait? That's just weird.

wazoox 16y ago
Because he sees himself as right-wing, so anyone disagreeing must be a socialist; therefore he's falling in the very trap he warned his opponent of. Funnily recursive indeed.
- xenophanes 16y ago
  You're wrong. I do not self-identify as right wing. I dislike most of the right wing. I said some stuff is left wing b/c left wing ppl so often believe it.
  - wazoox 16y ago
    OK, so you dislike right wing, and apparently despise left-wing. So what are you, apolitical? I have news for you : people calling themselves apolitical usually are right wing, preferably of the wingnut/fascistic category :) Sorry to bother you. What kills me is that it's almost impossible to have a good coherent political discussion on usenet, forums, whatever. It devolves incredibly fast in flamebait, and that's a pity. That would be a great startup idea : invent a forum system that allows proper, reasonable and contradictory political discussions but somehow avoids the Godwin malediction. Am I asking too much?
    - xenophanes 16y ago
      If you want a political discussion try here: http://groups.google.com/group/rational-politics-list/ http://groups.google.com/group/rational-politics-list/ Or email me. I'm a (classical) liberal. This does not fit into the "political spectrum" very well. You might think that being pro-capitalism is right wing but most of the mainstream right wing is not really capitalist and doesn't have that much in common with me. They also do stuff like oppose abortions and gays, favor traditional/conservative values, etc (ugh)
      - wazoox 16y ago
        As you know, "right" and "left" aren't that meaningful, conservative vs progressive, authoritarian vs liberal are probably more significant oppositions. I'll have a look to the group.