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Many great comments on this thread but I, a sikh immigrant who wears a turban, would rather leave the US than live anywhere except for the valley or NYC. Commen

Many great comments on this thread but I, a sikh immigrant who wears a turban, would rather leave the US than live anywhere except for the valley or NYC. Comments on this thread address everything from internet speed to "gov intervention is bad" but fail to miss a very important point - US tech workforce has a lot of immigrants and cities outside the list mentioned in the article are actively hostile to immigrants. It would be very difficult to build tech hubs without making them friendlier towards an immigrant workforce. I spent 6 days in Houston visiting a friend, here's what I remember from the trip: - Random airport check in a private room (check) - Called random names more times in 6 days than in my entire life (check) - Stared down actively in every bar I went to (check) Imagine being on an evening out, people staring at you trying to figure out "what" you are and knowing that they may be carrying a gun on them. Silicon valley (and NYC) is a place where its okay to be whoever you are, and that is something government intervention can't inject no matter how hard they try. I hope my comment doesn't come off as offensive, just trying to provide an important perspective which I believe the article misses.

rayiner 7y ago
This is an important issue, though I’d like to present the opposite experience. Only a small fraction of the country lives in New York or SF, but the US is among the top countries in the world for inclusive attitudes: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-06/the-inclusiveness-of-nationalities-ipsos-global-advisor.pdf https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/.... For inclusiveness of naturalized citizens, it’s #1 by a large margin. (This is based on surveys asking people like whether they would consider a naturalized citizen a "real American" or "real German" or whatever. For that question, 76% of Americans answered "yes" versus 13% answering "no." In Italy, it was 41% "yes" to 36% "no." Incidentally, also do pretty well on LGBT inclusiveness, having a higher net “yes” score than Spain, Italy, Germany, or the U.K.—which together comprise more than half the EU.) That’s consistent with my experience as a Bangladeshi immigrant. I grew up in a DC suburb in the early 1990s, before that area became diverse. A few remarks aside, I’ve always felt welcome, including in rural parts of Virginia, Illinois, Georgia, etc. I was on a plane to Dallas a few months ago. My seat mate was delicately trying to figure out my ethnicity. I explained I was Bangladeshi, and he didn’t know what that was. Then we had a very good conversation about how had really gotten into Indian food, and had put together a tandoor. Speaking for myself, I’d rather live in Houston or Kansas City or Pittsburgh than anywhere in the coasts. Also, where would I go, besides back to Bangladesh? You think the Berlin tech scene is more welcoming than the Salt Lake City tech scene? Maybe people will not say anything uncomfortable or offensive. But a Bangladeshi immigrant can become American, and people will recognize that as substantive and not merely a euphemism. But he’ll never become German, or Japanese, or French. The United States elected a son of an immigrant President. Not just New York and California, but Wisconsin and Michigan and Iowa. That’s never happened in Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Spain, or Italy, or any EU country that I’m aware of. I don’t say this to diminish anyone’s experience. But I think to the extent that people on the coasts are wondering what the rest of America is like, they get a balanced picture.
- Apocryphon 7y ago
  And even in the conservative South, you see Desis getting elected to governor. > That’s never happened in Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Spain, or Italy, or any EU country that I’m aware of. Ireland.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Bobby Jindal never identified that way nor did Haley.
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      Sure, but they are still the children of immigrants. Addendum to my earlier comment- Leo Varadkar is the son of an Indian immigrant, but even in the '40s Taoiseach Eamon de Valera had a Basque father from Spain. Interestingly enough, Boris Johnson was born in New York, but already in that same era Prime Minister Winston Churchill had an American mother.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      I agree that neither identify as "desi" but it's worth unpacking that a bit. Both are the children of immigrants. (Jindal's mother was pregnant with him in India before coming to the U.S. Both had two wedding ceremonies (Catholic and Hindu for Jindal, Sikh and Methodist for Hailey.) Both have discussed their parents' immigrant background publicly. Obviously, neither presents as white. In fact, they have a very common and very American immigration story. Even as children of first-generation immigrants living in the south, it was so easy for them to assimilate that they grew up identifying as "American" more than "Indian-American." This is the story of many children of immigrants. My dad, for example, hates the labels of "hyphenated American." So my brother and I grew up identifying as just "American." But this isn't possible most places.[1] Its not just about how you identify yourself, but how other people identify you. In most countries, society forces immigrants to identify with the country they left or their ethnicity. There are only a handful of countries that are so welcoming that the children of immigrants can choose to identify with nothing other than their new homeland. [1] Ironically, as I've gotten older, I've started to identify as Asian more than before. But I'd chalk that up to the balkanization of American culture and the drift away from what I can easily reconcile with my Asian immigrant values.
blt 7y ago
I wish more people would understand this. Although the big coastal cities still have plenty of institutional racism, glass ceilings, etc., at least your very existence is not often challenged.
Eric_WVGG 7y ago
“The heartland” is hostile to natively-born Americans, too. Regardless of their political leanings, I could never ask a female employee to live in a state where she could be denied an abortion, or where a trans employee might get hassled over using the bathroom. Blue America lets conservatives live however they want; Red America asks the rest of us to live their way, and then wants to know why we won’t take the jobs there, why we "fly over," reassure us that Houston is “more cosmopolitan thank you think.” Anyway: I feel terrible about your experience there, I am sorry that this nation let you down.
martianfeeder 7y ago
Quick clarification to the underlying sentiment behind my comment: I still consider America to be far far far more inclusive than any country I've ever visited (including my place of birth). In fact when people ask me where I'm from, I say I'm born in India but made in America. Americans are the kindest people I know.
selimthegrim 7y ago
What's been your experience in Canada?

rayiner 7y ago

This is an important issue, though I’d like to present the opposite experience. Only a small fraction of the country lives in New York or SF, but the US is among the top countries in the world for inclusive attitudes: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-06/the-inclusiveness-of-nationalities-ipsos-global-advisor.pdf https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/.... For inclusiveness of naturalized citizens, it’s #1 by a large margin. (This is based on surveys asking people like whether they would consider a naturalized citizen a "real American" or "real German" or whatever. For that question, 76% of Americans answered "yes" versus 13% answering "no." In Italy, it was 41% "yes" to 36% "no." Incidentally, also do pretty well on LGBT inclusiveness, having a higher net “yes” score than Spain, Italy, Germany, or the U.K.—which together comprise more than half the EU.) That’s consistent with my experience as a Bangladeshi immigrant. I grew up in a DC suburb in the early 1990s, before that area became diverse. A few remarks aside, I’ve always felt welcome, including in rural parts of Virginia, Illinois, Georgia, etc. I was on a plane to Dallas a few months ago. My seat mate was delicately trying to figure out my ethnicity. I explained I was Bangladeshi, and he didn’t know what that was. Then we had a very good conversation about how had really gotten into Indian food, and had put together a tandoor. Speaking for myself, I’d rather live in Houston or Kansas City or Pittsburgh than anywhere in the coasts. Also, where would I go, besides back to Bangladesh? You think the Berlin tech scene is more welcoming than the Salt Lake City tech scene? Maybe people will not say anything uncomfortable or offensive. But a Bangladeshi immigrant can become American, and people will recognize that as substantive and not merely a euphemism. But he’ll never become German, or Japanese, or French. The United States elected a son of an immigrant President. Not just New York and California, but Wisconsin and Michigan and Iowa. That’s never happened in Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Spain, or Italy, or any EU country that I’m aware of. I don’t say this to diminish anyone’s experience. But I think to the extent that people on the coasts are wondering what the rest of America is like, they get a balanced picture.

Apocryphon 7y ago
And even in the conservative South, you see Desis getting elected to governor. > That’s never happened in Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Spain, or Italy, or any EU country that I’m aware of. Ireland.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Bobby Jindal never identified that way nor did Haley.
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    Sure, but they are still the children of immigrants. Addendum to my earlier comment- Leo Varadkar is the son of an Indian immigrant, but even in the '40s Taoiseach Eamon de Valera had a Basque father from Spain. Interestingly enough, Boris Johnson was born in New York, but already in that same era Prime Minister Winston Churchill had an American mother.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    I agree that neither identify as "desi" but it's worth unpacking that a bit. Both are the children of immigrants. (Jindal's mother was pregnant with him in India before coming to the U.S. Both had two wedding ceremonies (Catholic and Hindu for Jindal, Sikh and Methodist for Hailey.) Both have discussed their parents' immigrant background publicly. Obviously, neither presents as white. In fact, they have a very common and very American immigration story. Even as children of first-generation immigrants living in the south, it was so easy for them to assimilate that they grew up identifying as "American" more than "Indian-American." This is the story of many children of immigrants. My dad, for example, hates the labels of "hyphenated American." So my brother and I grew up identifying as just "American." But this isn't possible most places.[1] Its not just about how you identify yourself, but how other people identify you. In most countries, society forces immigrants to identify with the country they left or their ethnicity. There are only a handful of countries that are so welcoming that the children of immigrants can choose to identify with nothing other than their new homeland. [1] Ironically, as I've gotten older, I've started to identify as Asian more than before. But I'd chalk that up to the balkanization of American culture and the drift away from what I can easily reconcile with my Asian immigrant values.

blt 7y ago

I wish more people would understand this. Although the big coastal cities still have plenty of institutional racism, glass ceilings, etc., at least your very existence is not often challenged.

Eric_WVGG 7y ago

“The heartland” is hostile to natively-born Americans, too. Regardless of their political leanings, I could never ask a female employee to live in a state where she could be denied an abortion, or where a trans employee might get hassled over using the bathroom. Blue America lets conservatives live however they want; Red America asks the rest of us to live their way, and then wants to know why we won’t take the jobs there, why we "fly over," reassure us that Houston is “more cosmopolitan thank you think.” Anyway: I feel terrible about your experience there, I am sorry that this nation let you down.

martianfeeder 7y ago

Quick clarification to the underlying sentiment behind my comment: I still consider America to be far far far more inclusive than any country I've ever visited (including my place of birth). In fact when people ask me where I'm from, I say I'm born in India but made in America. Americans are the kindest people I know.

selimthegrim 7y ago

What's been your experience in Canada?