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But wait, it gets better. The data is now permanently out there which means it's only a question of time until it leaks to insurance companies and bad actors, b

But wait, it gets better. The data is now permanently out there which means it's only a question of time until it leaks to insurance companies and bad actors, but the data is not only about the individual who submitted their DNA but everyone related to them. I'm sure GP's children will love them for selling out their data to future employers and insurers.

chr1 7y ago
This would be a concern if DNA was something secret like a password, but it isn't, it falls off you all the time in the form of hair and skin cells, so if there was something valuable in your DNA, your employers could get it easily anyway. And if your DNA was useful to insurers you would pay yourself for them to get it, because knowing that your risk of dying from certain disease is higher is also required for preventing that. In general trying to keep DNA secret to prevent discrimination is a losing game, a better strategy is preventing discrimination itself, which we already have to do for DNA variations that have visible manifestation. Moreover if the number of people who need protection from discrimination increases, we'll get better at preventing it, which would be useful for the people who are being discriminated now.
- Faark 7y ago
  > your employers could get it easily anyway I really hope that would be illegal here in the EU. It being physically possible (or even easy) doesn't make it okay. Not having the dataset easily available is one safety layer to prevent discrimination. No, it sadly doesn't help in all cases. Its unlikely there will ever be something that can, unless maybe you believe in perfectly implemented government policy reeducating us or controlling our behavior.
shadowgovt 7y ago
I'm curious what "bad actors" you imagine with a DNA dataset. Targeted viral agents to hunt and kill only shadowgovt's? If someone wanted to do that, raiding my trash for a half-eaten sandwich is a lot easier way to get the data they want then hoping I upload it to 23andme.
- vengefulduck 7y ago
  I think they were probably referring to the more mundane use of insurance companies buying the data and raising premiums for people with genetic risk factors. Which IMO seems very plausible.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    It's not impossible, but if it happens, it'll be a hell of a lawsuit. That scenario is specifically carved out as unacceptable in US law.
    - LunaSea 7y ago
      And we know that no law going against the citizen's own interests ever passed.
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        Absolutism doesn't really help in crafting good policy. The threat that bad things could possibly, maybe happen isn't a good reason to stop chasing disease cures. If we knew the ways vaccination programs would be abused, should we have refrained from inoculating so much of the world against polio?
        LunaSea 7y ago
        It absolutely is and it's also the reason the FDA has a process you have to follow before doing human testing before potentially killing people with a new treatment you're trying to develop.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        Yes, exactly. There's a process to follow to minimize risk in human testing. Human testing isn't categorically banned.

chr1 7y ago

This would be a concern if DNA was something secret like a password, but it isn't, it falls off you all the time in the form of hair and skin cells, so if there was something valuable in your DNA, your employers could get it easily anyway. And if your DNA was useful to insurers you would pay yourself for them to get it, because knowing that your risk of dying from certain disease is higher is also required for preventing that. In general trying to keep DNA secret to prevent discrimination is a losing game, a better strategy is preventing discrimination itself, which we already have to do for DNA variations that have visible manifestation. Moreover if the number of people who need protection from discrimination increases, we'll get better at preventing it, which would be useful for the people who are being discriminated now.

Faark 7y ago
> your employers could get it easily anyway I really hope that would be illegal here in the EU. It being physically possible (or even easy) doesn't make it okay. Not having the dataset easily available is one safety layer to prevent discrimination. No, it sadly doesn't help in all cases. Its unlikely there will ever be something that can, unless maybe you believe in perfectly implemented government policy reeducating us or controlling our behavior.

shadowgovt 7y ago

I'm curious what "bad actors" you imagine with a DNA dataset. Targeted viral agents to hunt and kill only shadowgovt's? If someone wanted to do that, raiding my trash for a half-eaten sandwich is a lot easier way to get the data they want then hoping I upload it to 23andme.

vengefulduck 7y ago
I think they were probably referring to the more mundane use of insurance companies buying the data and raising premiums for people with genetic risk factors. Which IMO seems very plausible.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  It's not impossible, but if it happens, it'll be a hell of a lawsuit. That scenario is specifically carved out as unacceptable in US law.
  - LunaSea 7y ago
    And we know that no law going against the citizen's own interests ever passed.
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Absolutism doesn't really help in crafting good policy. The threat that bad things could possibly, maybe happen isn't a good reason to stop chasing disease cures. If we knew the ways vaccination programs would be abused, should we have refrained from inoculating so much of the world against polio?
      - LunaSea 7y ago
        It absolutely is and it's also the reason the FDA has a process you have to follow before doing human testing before potentially killing people with a new treatment you're trying to develop.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        Yes, exactly. There's a process to follow to minimize risk in human testing. Human testing isn't categorically banned.