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I wonder what kind of disturbance just the helicopter (or whatever method was used to capture the footage) caused on the tribe. Obviously the tribe was aware o

I wonder what kind of disturbance just the helicopter (or whatever method was used to capture the footage) caused on the tribe. Obviously the tribe was aware of it, but if they've never been contacted, would they be able to even fathom what such a thing is? I'm genuinely curious because I'm also genuinely ignorant on how "uncontacted" tribes like that are and what their civilization is like. Could anyone enlighten me? It seems like such a fascinating area of study.

goldins 16y ago
I assume you're hinting at the theory regarding the Native Americans not being able to comprehend Columbus's ships. It would definitely be an interesting research study, though getting the paperwork filed might be a bit of a challenge :-)
vietor 16y ago
I would expect that it would do what every other unexplainable but repeated phenomena did in pre-scientific cultures, become part of the mythology. See: Weather. But my only anthropology was a few GE classes in undergrad, so maybe someone with actual knowledge can chime in? Hopefully future history books (or niche Ph.D. theses more likely ...) won't include a section about the bloody war between the plane-ists and the aplane-ists, over the deep theological issue of gods made manifest and physically watching over you... [See discussion below, not meant as a dig about this specific video or this specific group of people]
- farlington 16y ago
  from their faq (http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/articles/3109-questions-and-answers-uncontacted-tribes http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/articles/3109-questions-and...): "uncontacted tribes will have seen aeroplanes on numerous occasions. The idea that this damages their self-image and/or spiritual beliefs belongs in the realm of fiction, and is based on the false supposition that their cultures are fragile. Experience shows that such peoples are in fact robust and well able to adapt to outside goods – most have been doing so for a very long time. Tribal peoples are not destroyed when they get or see things from outside, but by violence and disease as their lands are invaded."
  - fingerprinter 16y ago
    I have to call BS on this. It may not "hurt" them, but it does influence/effect them. It has to. Going way back to my anthro classes, all primitive cultures crafted religious beliefs as survival mechanisms, to pass down stories and things that would benefit future generations etc etc. It was also a way to explain what they couldn't explain but still experienced (weather, natural disasters...) and this would fall into that category. What the FAQ did was use inflammatory language (damage, fragile) rather than talk about how this might shape and craft their thoughts and beliefs. If we haven't contacted them, we simply cannot know if IT DID impact them.
    - chc 16y ago
      You're being nitpicky. The point is that they won't form a religion around it and it won't have any major "The Gods Must Be Crazy"-style impact on their culture. Yes, it will have some effect, and so will a butterfly flapping its wings in China.
  - vietor 16y ago
    I did not mean to suggest that they would deviate significantly from the norm of any other group of people presented with unexplainable phenomena throughout the remainder of human history. Given the variance in how smoothly minor points of difference in mythology have gone down in the rest of history, it was not intended to indicate any additional fragility over baseline humanity. Suggesting that it damages anything is a significant value judgment. To suggest that notable, repeated, unexplained phenomena would have no impact at all whatsoever is sufficiently at odds with the entirety of human history, culture, and the general body of human mythology, that I'd like to see a stronger citation than the paragraph on their website if you find one.
  - Groxx 16y ago
    >Experience shows that such peoples are in fact robust and well able to adapt to outside goods Yes, fairly often by either adding it to their mythology or creating a cargo cult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult Whether either of those count as "damage" is academic; it's change. Either we inflict more change or we try to prevent all change.
cshenoy 16y ago
There's a pretty detailed article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1022822/Incredible-pictures-Earths-uncontacted-tribes-firing-bows-arrows.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1022822/Incre...) that explains what anthropologists assume they're thinking. It's basically "Stay Away" since the plane is a foreign object. In fact, you can see the tribesmen readying their weapons in case the flying object veers towards them.
- riledhel 16y ago
  Photos taken a couple of years ago showing the "stay away" attitude pretty good http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/05/uncontacted_tribe_photographed.html http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/05/uncontacted_tribe_p...
Devilboy 16y ago
I'm sure they've seen planes plenty of times, I mean commercial airliners fly pretty much everywhere I think? I'm sure they'd love to see it up close though. They must assume it's a bird monster or something.
- mrnothere 16y ago
  Nah, commercial airliners don't fly pretty much everywhere they fly between airports on predetermined routes. Through air traffic control "sectors" One of the things that is hard to understand for all of us who live so close to the civilized world, is how much of the world is uninhabited and poorly understood.
geoffw8 16y ago
Yeah, I agree. To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with what they've done. I have no proof, or evidence of anything, just a gut feel. That moment could have irreversibly changed each one of their lives - possibly for the worse. Its all of our world, I know, but still. I mean, they're not zoo animals.
bugsy 16y ago
The uncontacted tribes are not unknown and they are not ignorant that there is a world outside with airplanes. They are uncontacted because they choose not to make contact with non-tribal outsiders. This is in part due to violent conflicts in the past. There's a statement by a Yamomani leader on the site that uncontacted tribes should be left alone on their own lands and since governments like Peru were denying their existence, the photos will help. http://www.survivalinternational.org/material/1157 http://www.survivalinternational.org/material/1157 Yanomami if you recall are a stone age people from this area who only made peaceful contact a few decades ago. They have had contact and familiarity with some of these other tribes. The tribes in this video are protected somewhat by the Brazilian government which uses aerial visits to check on the condition of tribes and make sure that outsiders have not breeched the perimeter of the reserve.

goldins 16y ago

I assume you're hinting at the theory regarding the Native Americans not being able to comprehend Columbus's ships. It would definitely be an interesting research study, though getting the paperwork filed might be a bit of a challenge :-)

vietor 16y ago

I would expect that it would do what every other unexplainable but repeated phenomena did in pre-scientific cultures, become part of the mythology. See: Weather. But my only anthropology was a few GE classes in undergrad, so maybe someone with actual knowledge can chime in? Hopefully future history books (or niche Ph.D. theses more likely ...) won't include a section about the bloody war between the plane-ists and the aplane-ists, over the deep theological issue of gods made manifest and physically watching over you... [See discussion below, not meant as a dig about this specific video or this specific group of people]

farlington 16y ago
from their faq (http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/articles/3109-questions-and-answers-uncontacted-tribes http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/articles/3109-questions-and...): "uncontacted tribes will have seen aeroplanes on numerous occasions. The idea that this damages their self-image and/or spiritual beliefs belongs in the realm of fiction, and is based on the false supposition that their cultures are fragile. Experience shows that such peoples are in fact robust and well able to adapt to outside goods – most have been doing so for a very long time. Tribal peoples are not destroyed when they get or see things from outside, but by violence and disease as their lands are invaded."
- fingerprinter 16y ago
  I have to call BS on this. It may not "hurt" them, but it does influence/effect them. It has to. Going way back to my anthro classes, all primitive cultures crafted religious beliefs as survival mechanisms, to pass down stories and things that would benefit future generations etc etc. It was also a way to explain what they couldn't explain but still experienced (weather, natural disasters...) and this would fall into that category. What the FAQ did was use inflammatory language (damage, fragile) rather than talk about how this might shape and craft their thoughts and beliefs. If we haven't contacted them, we simply cannot know if IT DID impact them.
  - chc 16y ago
    You're being nitpicky. The point is that they won't form a religion around it and it won't have any major "The Gods Must Be Crazy"-style impact on their culture. Yes, it will have some effect, and so will a butterfly flapping its wings in China.
- vietor 16y ago
  I did not mean to suggest that they would deviate significantly from the norm of any other group of people presented with unexplainable phenomena throughout the remainder of human history. Given the variance in how smoothly minor points of difference in mythology have gone down in the rest of history, it was not intended to indicate any additional fragility over baseline humanity. Suggesting that it damages anything is a significant value judgment. To suggest that notable, repeated, unexplained phenomena would have no impact at all whatsoever is sufficiently at odds with the entirety of human history, culture, and the general body of human mythology, that I'd like to see a stronger citation than the paragraph on their website if you find one.
- Groxx 16y ago
  >Experience shows that such peoples are in fact robust and well able to adapt to outside goods Yes, fairly often by either adding it to their mythology or creating a cargo cult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult Whether either of those count as "damage" is academic; it's change. Either we inflict more change or we try to prevent all change.

cshenoy 16y ago

There's a pretty detailed article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1022822/Incredible-pictures-Earths-uncontacted-tribes-firing-bows-arrows.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1022822/Incre...) that explains what anthropologists assume they're thinking. It's basically "Stay Away" since the plane is a foreign object. In fact, you can see the tribesmen readying their weapons in case the flying object veers towards them.

riledhel 16y ago
Photos taken a couple of years ago showing the "stay away" attitude pretty good http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/05/uncontacted_tribe_photographed.html http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/05/uncontacted_tribe_p...

Devilboy 16y ago

I'm sure they've seen planes plenty of times, I mean commercial airliners fly pretty much everywhere I think? I'm sure they'd love to see it up close though. They must assume it's a bird monster or something.

mrnothere 16y ago
Nah, commercial airliners don't fly pretty much everywhere they fly between airports on predetermined routes. Through air traffic control "sectors" One of the things that is hard to understand for all of us who live so close to the civilized world, is how much of the world is uninhabited and poorly understood.

geoffw8 16y ago

Yeah, I agree. To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with what they've done. I have no proof, or evidence of anything, just a gut feel. That moment could have irreversibly changed each one of their lives - possibly for the worse. Its all of our world, I know, but still. I mean, they're not zoo animals.

bugsy 16y ago

The uncontacted tribes are not unknown and they are not ignorant that there is a world outside with airplanes. They are uncontacted because they choose not to make contact with non-tribal outsiders. This is in part due to violent conflicts in the past. There's a statement by a Yamomani leader on the site that uncontacted tribes should be left alone on their own lands and since governments like Peru were denying their existence, the photos will help. http://www.survivalinternational.org/material/1157 http://www.survivalinternational.org/material/1157 Yanomami if you recall are a stone age people from this area who only made peaceful contact a few decades ago. They have had contact and familiarity with some of these other tribes. The tribes in this video are protected somewhat by the Brazilian government which uses aerial visits to check on the condition of tribes and make sure that outsiders have not breeched the perimeter of the reserve.