4 ms·

Something I'd like to point out here, not taking away from any of your points. If you think of Airbus as a multi-national consortium (as it rightly is: French,

Something I'd like to point out here, not taking away from any of your points. If you think of Airbus as a multi-national consortium (as it rightly is: French, British, etc.) then a Chinese/Russian hook-up is not totally daft. You could make the same argument about "a great recipe to delay everything even further" about Airbus versus Boeing and yet Airbus appears to be doing okay. Don't we think competition is good? What happened to cheering on free markets? Why exactly do we want a Western duopoly to continue to exist in perpetuity? If Western countries believed their own rhetoric they'd be helping Russia and China to compete on the world stage – it would be a win for the entire globe. You make it sound like 2030 is a lifetime away. It's only 10 years. It's been less than a century since the last huge global conflict and it looks like China and Russia will be toe-to-toe with the West (ignoring that Russia is already largely Western) in commercial aviation, space-flight, nuclear power, possibly semiconductor production, you name it. The West does not have some God-given or divine-right to remain on top of the heap – China (and India) are going to eventually catch up, it's just a matter of time, the only thing up for debate in my mind is whether it's sooner rather than later, and I believe in China's case it's going to be upon us sooner than we expect.

igravious 7y ago
Replying to myself. Airbus is a consortium of four countries: France, UK, Germany, Spain – started in the 60's. Basically China/Russia are 50 or 60 years behind! Here's a recent doc about the most technologically advanced aircraft they've manufactured, the A350: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yutzg2NLwcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yutzg2NLwcU “Giant Aircraft: Manufacturing an Airbus A350 | Mega Manufacturing | Free Documentary”
- sudosysgen 7y ago
  Not to forget a joint venture with Canada.
9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
I didn't say any of that. My point is simply that building large modern passenger aircraft is Hard with a capital H, and while I wish them luck, China still has a long, long way to go. And FWIW, if you read up on Airbus's history, you'll see that their unusual structure and resulting internal politics have caused a lot of pain over the years (eg. the A380 superjumbo program). Ironically enough, Boeing got a taste of this too when they decided to outsource all the things when building the 787, which consequently went way over budget.
ajxs 7y ago
> Don't we think competition is good? What happened to cheering on free markets? No? Not really? Obviously competitions is good when it drives innovation, which is beneficial for domestic industry as a whole. Competition is not good for competition's sake. It's not good competition when Western players fall behind. This isn't some kind of hypocritical failing of free-market doctrines. You either don't understand what it intended to accomplish, or are deliberately misrepresenting it. I suspect the latter. > Why exactly do we want a Western duopoly to continue to exist in perpetuity? ... Why wouldn't we want our own players to dominate the industry? I don't think any kind of monopoly/duopoly is a good thing, but I don't really think that's your point. Your use of the word 'Western' betrays your intent here. > If Western countries believed their own rhetoric they'd be helping Russia and China to compete on the world stage – it would be a win for the entire globe. Um... no? China's exports becoming more competitive would not be a win for the entire globe, it would be quite the opposite. > The West does not have some God-given or divine-right to remain on top of the heap... Of course not, God didn't put us on top of the heap either. > China (and India) are going to eventually catch up, it's just a matter of time, the only thing up for debate in my mind is whether it's sooner rather than later, and I believe in China's case it's going to be upon us sooner than we expect. I wouldn't hold your breath.

igravious 7y ago

Replying to myself. Airbus is a consortium of four countries: France, UK, Germany, Spain – started in the 60's. Basically China/Russia are 50 or 60 years behind! Here's a recent doc about the most technologically advanced aircraft they've manufactured, the A350: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yutzg2NLwcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yutzg2NLwcU “Giant Aircraft: Manufacturing an Airbus A350 | Mega Manufacturing | Free Documentary”

sudosysgen 7y ago
Not to forget a joint venture with Canada.

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago

I didn't say any of that. My point is simply that building large modern passenger aircraft is Hard with a capital H, and while I wish them luck, China still has a long, long way to go. And FWIW, if you read up on Airbus's history, you'll see that their unusual structure and resulting internal politics have caused a lot of pain over the years (eg. the A380 superjumbo program). Ironically enough, Boeing got a taste of this too when they decided to outsource all the things when building the 787, which consequently went way over budget.

ajxs 7y ago

> Don't we think competition is good? What happened to cheering on free markets? No? Not really? Obviously competitions is good when it drives innovation, which is beneficial for domestic industry as a whole. Competition is not good for competition's sake. It's not good competition when Western players fall behind. This isn't some kind of hypocritical failing of free-market doctrines. You either don't understand what it intended to accomplish, or are deliberately misrepresenting it. I suspect the latter. > Why exactly do we want a Western duopoly to continue to exist in perpetuity? ... Why wouldn't we want our own players to dominate the industry? I don't think any kind of monopoly/duopoly is a good thing, but I don't really think that's your point. Your use of the word 'Western' betrays your intent here. > If Western countries believed their own rhetoric they'd be helping Russia and China to compete on the world stage – it would be a win for the entire globe. Um... no? China's exports becoming more competitive would not be a win for the entire globe, it would be quite the opposite. > The West does not have some God-given or divine-right to remain on top of the heap... Of course not, God didn't put us on top of the heap either. > China (and India) are going to eventually catch up, it's just a matter of time, the only thing up for debate in my mind is whether it's sooner rather than later, and I believe in China's case it's going to be upon us sooner than we expect. I wouldn't hold your breath.