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I think its growing because its the only way to do Android dev if you don't want to do Java 6. For that, its still great, but for any backend programming, you s

I think its growing because its the only way to do Android dev if you don't want to do Java 6. For that, its still great, but for any backend programming, you should consider getting the real thing (Scala) and not its watered down copy.

matsemann 7y ago
Watered down is a feature. Code bases with Scala tends to be unreadable for people not well versed in the language. Kotlin is mostly just a better Java. So it's easier to introduce. And the interop is first class, so it's really easy to mix and match java and kotlin, which also makes it easier to gradually introduce.
- pkolaczk 7y ago
  My experience tells me the opposite. Scala codebases written by professionals are very readable even to people not knowing Java, but Python. Many analysts use Scala and Python. The only people I met who complained on Scala complexity were guys who were either invested heavily in another language (eg Haskell), in which case it was just a subjective opinion or people who struggled with writing good Java code as well.
- erik_seaberg 7y ago
  > unreadable for people not well versed in the language This is a sign the language is pulling its weight. We're going to spend most of our careers at the top of the learning curve, so we shouldn't optimize for briefly being at the bottom.
pjmlp 7y ago
Not only that, Google and JetBrains cleverly sell Android Java as Java when talking about Kotlin capabilities over Java. If Android Java was actually modern Java, the sales pitch wouldn't be as strong.
jillesvangurp 7y ago
I think Kotlin is outgrowing Scala on the backend as well. Spring is basically not bothering at all with Scala but they are adding lots of Kotlin specific functionality in the last two years. Check this recent presentation of the state of Kotlin in Spring: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/spring-kotlin-boot-kofu/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/spring-kotlin-boot-kofu/ If you read between the lines, what they are saying is that Kotlin is now the primary language to use Spring with.

matsemann 7y ago

Watered down is a feature. Code bases with Scala tends to be unreadable for people not well versed in the language. Kotlin is mostly just a better Java. So it's easier to introduce. And the interop is first class, so it's really easy to mix and match java and kotlin, which also makes it easier to gradually introduce.

pkolaczk 7y ago
My experience tells me the opposite. Scala codebases written by professionals are very readable even to people not knowing Java, but Python. Many analysts use Scala and Python. The only people I met who complained on Scala complexity were guys who were either invested heavily in another language (eg Haskell), in which case it was just a subjective opinion or people who struggled with writing good Java code as well.
erik_seaberg 7y ago
> unreadable for people not well versed in the language This is a sign the language is pulling its weight. We're going to spend most of our careers at the top of the learning curve, so we shouldn't optimize for briefly being at the bottom.

pjmlp 7y ago

Not only that, Google and JetBrains cleverly sell Android Java as Java when talking about Kotlin capabilities over Java. If Android Java was actually modern Java, the sales pitch wouldn't be as strong.

jillesvangurp 7y ago

I think Kotlin is outgrowing Scala on the backend as well. Spring is basically not bothering at all with Scala but they are adding lots of Kotlin specific functionality in the last two years. Check this recent presentation of the state of Kotlin in Spring: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/spring-kotlin-boot-kofu/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/spring-kotlin-boot-kofu/ If you read between the lines, what they are saying is that Kotlin is now the primary language to use Spring with.