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> Is this more true for guns than any other object? Is there such a strong casual relationship between proximity and firearms and subsequent injuries and deaths

> Is this more true for guns than any other object? Is there such a strong casual relationship between proximity and firearms and subsequent injuries and deaths to overcome the other aspects of the discussion? What other aspect of the discussion do you feel undermines the point that owning a gun actually measurably reduces personal liberty via death? What hard hitting facts do you think are missing here?

jMyles 7y ago
1) As best I can tell, owning a gun doesn't increase the risk of becoming a victim of violence. 2) Many decisions in life come with risks: the decision to own a car or swimming pool puts you much closer to the most frequent causes of death for people under the age of 35. But people make rational decisions to do these things anyway and then mitigate the risks in ways that they see fit.
- tomlockwood 7y ago
  Neither of these undermine the point that liberty and self-defence are actually lowered by gun ownership.
  - Jamwinner 7y ago
    Care to prove that point?
    - tomlockwood 7y ago
      Numerous studies and meta-analyses have shown that gun ownership, even when controlled for other factors, produces an increase of gun deaths in a household of 3x. What would be sufficient proof to satisfy you of this fact?
      - jMyles 7y ago
        Having perused the EveryTown material on this topic, which I (perhaps wrongly) assume contains the most convincing material, I see that a major critique of this methodology remains unanswered: that the increased risk of completed suicide is so tightly coupled with military servitude that the role of guns cannot be convincingly established in either the univariate or multivariate analysis. What do you say to this?
        tomlockwood 7y ago
        Are you talking about this everytown, which again proclaims the 3x risk of gun deaths? https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/ https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/
        CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        > a major critique of this methodology remains unanswered: that the increased risk of completed suicide is so tightly coupled with military servitude that the role of guns cannot be convincingly established in either the univariate or multivariate analysis. > What do you say to this?
        tomlockwood 7y ago
        I say this supposedly major critique isn't represented in the data. The everytown article you seem to be mentioning recommends tighter gun controls.
        jMyles 7y ago
        <slow blink>, yes, we know that the best funded arms restriction organization in the world recommends tighter gun restrictions. Obviously. I have to say: I think that you have stopped making sense or putting in any effort to this discussion so I'm just going to move on.
        tomlockwood 7y ago

jMyles 7y ago

1) As best I can tell, owning a gun doesn't increase the risk of becoming a victim of violence. 2) Many decisions in life come with risks: the decision to own a car or swimming pool puts you much closer to the most frequent causes of death for people under the age of 35. But people make rational decisions to do these things anyway and then mitigate the risks in ways that they see fit.

tomlockwood 7y ago
Neither of these undermine the point that liberty and self-defence are actually lowered by gun ownership.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Care to prove that point?
  - tomlockwood 7y ago
    Numerous studies and meta-analyses have shown that gun ownership, even when controlled for other factors, produces an increase of gun deaths in a household of 3x. What would be sufficient proof to satisfy you of this fact?
    - jMyles 7y ago
      Having perused the EveryTown material on this topic, which I (perhaps wrongly) assume contains the most convincing material, I see that a major critique of this methodology remains unanswered: that the increased risk of completed suicide is so tightly coupled with military servitude that the role of guns cannot be convincingly established in either the univariate or multivariate analysis. What do you say to this?
      - tomlockwood 7y ago
        Are you talking about this everytown, which again proclaims the 3x risk of gun deaths? https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/ https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/
        CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        > a major critique of this methodology remains unanswered: that the increased risk of completed suicide is so tightly coupled with military servitude that the role of guns cannot be convincingly established in either the univariate or multivariate analysis. > What do you say to this?
        tomlockwood 7y ago
        I say this supposedly major critique isn't represented in the data. The everytown article you seem to be mentioning recommends tighter gun controls.
        jMyles 7y ago
        <slow blink>, yes, we know that the best funded arms restriction organization in the world recommends tighter gun restrictions. Obviously. I have to say: I think that you have stopped making sense or putting in any effort to this discussion so I'm just going to move on.
        tomlockwood 7y ago