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I am OK with the thought that the the universe sprang into existence, and through some form of randomness or chance, things played out on this planet that allow

I am OK with the thought that the the universe sprang into existence, and through some form of randomness or chance, things played out on this planet that allowed for life and for me to exist on it. Now go back to step one and assume that, even on an atomic level, there is no chance, no randomness. Given all of the preconditions, we get this outcome every single time. Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. It’s crazy.

sysbin 7y ago
> Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. I think the answer is society conditions us to assume we have choice by how society is structured and how society functions. You writing the comment is just me being an external force upon you and triggering it from all the previous external forces that made you eventually react the way you did. Even if everything isn't random, a lot of what people like to wish for & believe, can in fact come true but it's hard for me to rationalize it. Other than an outside our universe deterministic observer needing to exist.
outlace 7y ago
How would random motion of atoms give you any more free choice than deterministic motion of atoms? Personally, fundamental randomness is more disturbing to me because it implies a-causality, i.e. that at the smallest scales things happen for no reason at all and would be unexplainable in principle.
GoblinSlayer 7y ago
With determinism you determine the choice by thinking and finding the best option, at least it's properly your choice. With indeterminism you don't determine anything, because the choice is not determined by anything, it's just a random process independent from you.
- nateferrero 7y ago
  What is doing the choosing, your thalamus?
  - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
    The person.

sysbin 7y ago

> Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. I think the answer is society conditions us to assume we have choice by how society is structured and how society functions. You writing the comment is just me being an external force upon you and triggering it from all the previous external forces that made you eventually react the way you did. Even if everything isn't random, a lot of what people like to wish for & believe, can in fact come true but it's hard for me to rationalize it. Other than an outside our universe deterministic observer needing to exist.

outlace 7y ago

How would random motion of atoms give you any more free choice than deterministic motion of atoms? Personally, fundamental randomness is more disturbing to me because it implies a-causality, i.e. that at the smallest scales things happen for no reason at all and would be unexplainable in principle.

GoblinSlayer 7y ago

With determinism you determine the choice by thinking and finding the best option, at least it's properly your choice. With indeterminism you don't determine anything, because the choice is not determined by anything, it's just a random process independent from you.

nateferrero 7y ago
What is doing the choosing, your thalamus?
- GoblinSlayer 7y ago
  The person.