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How so, can you expand on what would be terrifying on a personal and existential level for you? I've encountered a few people that will cite quantum theory whe

by sysbin 7y ago

How so, can you expand on what would be terrifying on a personal and existential level for you? I've encountered a few people that will cite quantum theory when it comes to discussions about questioning if one has free will. I cannot even imagine how quantum theory gives a us true free will and without one's will just being the outcome of the system we reside in.

mberning 7y ago
I am OK with the thought that the the universe sprang into existence, and through some form of randomness or chance, things played out on this planet that allowed for life and for me to exist on it. Now go back to step one and assume that, even on an atomic level, there is no chance, no randomness. Given all of the preconditions, we get this outcome every single time. Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. It’s crazy.
- sysbin 7y ago
  > Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. I think the answer is society conditions us to assume we have choice by how society is structured and how society functions. You writing the comment is just me being an external force upon you and triggering it from all the previous external forces that made you eventually react the way you did. Even if everything isn't random, a lot of what people like to wish for & believe, can in fact come true but it's hard for me to rationalize it. Other than an outside our universe deterministic observer needing to exist.
- outlace 7y ago
  How would random motion of atoms give you any more free choice than deterministic motion of atoms? Personally, fundamental randomness is more disturbing to me because it implies a-causality, i.e. that at the smallest scales things happen for no reason at all and would be unexplainable in principle.
- GoblinSlayer 7y ago
  With determinism you determine the choice by thinking and finding the best option, at least it's properly your choice. With indeterminism you don't determine anything, because the choice is not determined by anything, it's just a random process independent from you.
  - nateferrero 7y ago
    What is doing the choosing, your thalamus?
    - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
      The person.

by sysbin 7y ago

mberning 7y ago

I am OK with the thought that the the universe sprang into existence, and through some form of randomness or chance, things played out on this planet that allowed for life and for me to exist on it. Now go back to step one and assume that, even on an atomic level, there is no chance, no randomness. Given all of the preconditions, we get this outcome every single time. Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. It’s crazy.

sysbin 7y ago
> Then I have to reconsider why is there even the illusion of choice. Why should I even write this comment. I think the answer is society conditions us to assume we have choice by how society is structured and how society functions. You writing the comment is just me being an external force upon you and triggering it from all the previous external forces that made you eventually react the way you did. Even if everything isn't random, a lot of what people like to wish for & believe, can in fact come true but it's hard for me to rationalize it. Other than an outside our universe deterministic observer needing to exist.
outlace 7y ago
How would random motion of atoms give you any more free choice than deterministic motion of atoms? Personally, fundamental randomness is more disturbing to me because it implies a-causality, i.e. that at the smallest scales things happen for no reason at all and would be unexplainable in principle.
GoblinSlayer 7y ago
With determinism you determine the choice by thinking and finding the best option, at least it's properly your choice. With indeterminism you don't determine anything, because the choice is not determined by anything, it's just a random process independent from you.
- nateferrero 7y ago
  What is doing the choosing, your thalamus?
  - GoblinSlayer 7y ago
    The person.