4 ms·

They were gambling on a quick fix that would be acceptable to regulators, and which could be easily retrofit to existing aircraft, including the ones still roll

by rst 7y ago

They were gambling on a quick fix that would be acceptable to regulators, and which could be easily retrofit to existing aircraft, including the ones still rolling off the production line. Pausing production has cost -- and if the planes were recertified by now, the cost of storing finished planes in parking lots is probably quite a bit less.

kayfox 7y ago
I think they were gambling on the delay being a reasonable amount of time, say 6 months. Now the FAA has had the final updated software for something like a month and a half and just started certification testing. This smacks of some incompetence on behalf of the FAA, since if they had a clear idea of what the requirements were for re-certification, they would also have a clear idea of how long it should take, and the last 6 months have been delays and "we will be done when were done". I'm also not too keen on the machisimo of the FAA Administrator insisting on testing the aircraft himself. Everyone here on HN wants this to be drawn out to punish Boeing, but its really punishing everyone, including the wallets of people buying airline tickets. Ticket prices have been high with many airlines because of their grounded fleet.
- acqq 7y ago
  > Now the FAA has had the final updated software for something like a month and a half and just started certification testing. This smacks of some incompetence on behalf of the FAA Up to the second accident FAA left much of the certification process up to Boeing(!) alone. No wonder that they discovered now that they need more time: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/12/11/faa-chief-says-boeings-737-max-wont-be-approved-in-2019/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/12/11/faa-... They also demonstrated to the whole world that they aren't serious about safety after the rest of the world grounded the planes but they still just repeated whatever Boeing told them. The current weakness of FAA is of Boeing's making: https://www.economist.com/business/2019/03/23/regulatory-capture-may-be-responsible-for-boeings-recent-problems https://www.economist.com/business/2019/03/23/regulatory-cap... "Since 2001 [Boeing] has lobbied vigorously to perform more of its own safety tests. In 2005 the FAA began to allow Boeing to do more self-certification. “It’s like putting children in charge of the sweet shop,” says a former Boeing adviser. An investigation by the transportation department in 2012 found that the FAA had not done enough to “hold Boeing accountable”. It quoted FAA employees who had reported retaliation for speaking up about problems with Boeing’s previous designs."
mark-r 7y ago
Their initial reaction was "nothing to see here, keep moving". When it was clear that wouldn't fly, it was "don't worry, we'll have a fix ready before you know it". It should have been clear when the entire world stopped trusting their certification that this was going to be a long drawn out process. The scariest part of this event is their apparent disconnect from reality. Their gamble was a losing one from the beginning.
- AlexCoventry 7y ago
  I think, given the corruption which has come out from the investigation, that gambling on a quick fix was probably a sane choice. That only makes it scarier, though.

by rst 7y ago

kayfox 7y ago

I think they were gambling on the delay being a reasonable amount of time, say 6 months. Now the FAA has had the final updated software for something like a month and a half and just started certification testing. This smacks of some incompetence on behalf of the FAA, since if they had a clear idea of what the requirements were for re-certification, they would also have a clear idea of how long it should take, and the last 6 months have been delays and "we will be done when were done". I'm also not too keen on the machisimo of the FAA Administrator insisting on testing the aircraft himself. Everyone here on HN wants this to be drawn out to punish Boeing, but its really punishing everyone, including the wallets of people buying airline tickets. Ticket prices have been high with many airlines because of their grounded fleet.

acqq 7y ago
> Now the FAA has had the final updated software for something like a month and a half and just started certification testing. This smacks of some incompetence on behalf of the FAA Up to the second accident FAA left much of the certification process up to Boeing(!) alone. No wonder that they discovered now that they need more time: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/12/11/faa-chief-says-boeings-737-max-wont-be-approved-in-2019/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/12/11/faa-... They also demonstrated to the whole world that they aren't serious about safety after the rest of the world grounded the planes but they still just repeated whatever Boeing told them. The current weakness of FAA is of Boeing's making: https://www.economist.com/business/2019/03/23/regulatory-capture-may-be-responsible-for-boeings-recent-problems https://www.economist.com/business/2019/03/23/regulatory-cap... "Since 2001 [Boeing] has lobbied vigorously to perform more of its own safety tests. In 2005 the FAA began to allow Boeing to do more self-certification. “It’s like putting children in charge of the sweet shop,” says a former Boeing adviser. An investigation by the transportation department in 2012 found that the FAA had not done enough to “hold Boeing accountable”. It quoted FAA employees who had reported retaliation for speaking up about problems with Boeing’s previous designs."

mark-r 7y ago

Their initial reaction was "nothing to see here, keep moving". When it was clear that wouldn't fly, it was "don't worry, we'll have a fix ready before you know it". It should have been clear when the entire world stopped trusting their certification that this was going to be a long drawn out process. The scariest part of this event is their apparent disconnect from reality. Their gamble was a losing one from the beginning.

AlexCoventry 7y ago
I think, given the corruption which has come out from the investigation, that gambling on a quick fix was probably a sane choice. That only makes it scarier, though.