6 ms·

I'd rather see nothing being subsidized. If you want to help the poor afford public transit, lower their taxes. Maybe not taking a substantial their working c

I'd rather see nothing being subsidized. If you want to help the poor afford public transit, lower their taxes. Maybe not taking a substantial their working capital and giving it back to them when their old isn't such a bright idea either.

shadowgovt 7y ago
One could cease to provide social security as it is structured if one replaced it with an alternative. We already know from US history that it is unwise (in a humanitarian sense) to trust the public to just save enough to retire comfortably (including having the foresight to keep their savings in assets that don't diminish in value before they are needed to offset continued life without labor into the system).
- weberc2 7y ago
  I thought postwar America was known for investing in real estate to great wealth-building effect? I’m not sure how worthwhile other time periods are for comparison as our economy is so much different.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Approximately 65% of Americans own their home.
    - weberc2 7y ago
      I’m not sure what point you’re making, if any. Care to elaborate?
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        If the up-thread reference to American real-estate investment implied Americans use real-estate ownership as a retirement nest-egg, the numbers do not bear out that hypothesis---or at least, do not show it's a solution much of America avails itself of. ... and that's ignoring that shocks like the mortgage crisis can happen, which indicates that home ownership isn't as stable a store of value as, say, the US dollar.
  - stretchwithme 7y ago
    Singapore has a better system. They force you to save, but it's your money. You can use it to buy a home. So you don't start getting it back when you're old. It can serve you much earlier. I think the rate of home ownership there is over 90%.
freeone3000 7y ago
More than half of Americans end up not paying taxes, because their income is too low. If you're saying make it negative, sure, I'm all for that, but I think you are underestimating the poverty situation in America.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure it's not true that more than half of Americans avoid paying FICA because their income is too low. It would have to be $0.
  - shantly 7y ago
    Also sales, property, and so on.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      Sure, but FICA is an income tax.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  Everyone pays tax; you’re likely referring to income tax. Don’t forget sales tax, etc.
standardUser 7y ago
Low wage earners pay very little in taxes. I honestly thought that was common knowledge. Reducing their tax burned would have a negligible impact on their net income. It solves absolutely nothing.
zucked 7y ago
Lower... what taxes, exactly? Income? Property?
- anon73044 7y ago
  Regressive sales and vice taxes. j/k Seriously though, this year is the first I've ever made over median income and I'm happy to pay taxes if they can actually improve QOL rather than be used to subsidize and oil company or two
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    Nobody needs to consume alcohol or tobacco to survive. Tax it to what the market will bear.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Nobody needs kale or skateboards either. There are other vegetables and personal transportation available. Why not tax them to "what the market will bear"? What does that even mean? If kale consumption drops by 5% is the market "bearing"? 50%? 98%? Why don't we just tax everything except your favorite things to buy?
      - crc32 7y ago
        > Nobody needs kale or skateboards either... Why not tax them to "what the market will bear"? Because alcohol and tobacco have "negative externalities" to society. These would be mainly health related but I guess the discussion on this post is also around behavioural issues. By adding a tax to a product, you can make the consumers and manufacturers together share the burden of paying off the externality, (e.g. care for lung cancer patients) and/or the tax will often discourage consumption in the first place. (The second being more applicable in the US where there is limited/no universal healthcare) The reason you probably wouldn't tax kale, is because it's good for you, and if anything; you could say it has a "positive externality" in that consuming it makes you healthier, and thus benefits society. So it might make sense to actual SUBSIDISE kale production... although this may have very different effects from taxing unhealthy food. As an example, Scotland has introduced a tax on alcohol called "minimum unit pricing" and there's a study here: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/5/e013497 https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/5/e013497 The UK as a whole also has a "sugar tax" https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/research/research-action/features/uk-sugar-tax-will-it-work https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/research/research-action/features/uk...

shadowgovt 7y ago

One could cease to provide social security as it is structured if one replaced it with an alternative. We already know from US history that it is unwise (in a humanitarian sense) to trust the public to just save enough to retire comfortably (including having the foresight to keep their savings in assets that don't diminish in value before they are needed to offset continued life without labor into the system).

weberc2 7y ago
I thought postwar America was known for investing in real estate to great wealth-building effect? I’m not sure how worthwhile other time periods are for comparison as our economy is so much different.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Approximately 65% of Americans own their home.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    I’m not sure what point you’re making, if any. Care to elaborate?
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      If the up-thread reference to American real-estate investment implied Americans use real-estate ownership as a retirement nest-egg, the numbers do not bear out that hypothesis---or at least, do not show it's a solution much of America avails itself of. ... and that's ignoring that shocks like the mortgage crisis can happen, which indicates that home ownership isn't as stable a store of value as, say, the US dollar.
- stretchwithme 7y ago
  Singapore has a better system. They force you to save, but it's your money. You can use it to buy a home. So you don't start getting it back when you're old. It can serve you much earlier. I think the rate of home ownership there is over 90%.

freeone3000 7y ago

More than half of Americans end up not paying taxes, because their income is too low. If you're saying make it negative, sure, I'm all for that, but I think you are underestimating the poverty situation in America.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
I'm pretty sure it's not true that more than half of Americans avoid paying FICA because their income is too low. It would have to be $0.
- shantly 7y ago
  Also sales, property, and so on.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    Sure, but FICA is an income tax.
greglindahl 7y ago
Everyone pays tax; you’re likely referring to income tax. Don’t forget sales tax, etc.

standardUser 7y ago

Low wage earners pay very little in taxes. I honestly thought that was common knowledge. Reducing their tax burned would have a negligible impact on their net income. It solves absolutely nothing.

zucked 7y ago

Lower... what taxes, exactly? Income? Property?

anon73044 7y ago
Regressive sales and vice taxes. j/k Seriously though, this year is the first I've ever made over median income and I'm happy to pay taxes if they can actually improve QOL rather than be used to subsidize and oil company or two
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Nobody needs to consume alcohol or tobacco to survive. Tax it to what the market will bear.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Nobody needs kale or skateboards either. There are other vegetables and personal transportation available. Why not tax them to "what the market will bear"? What does that even mean? If kale consumption drops by 5% is the market "bearing"? 50%? 98%? Why don't we just tax everything except your favorite things to buy?
    - crc32 7y ago
      > Nobody needs kale or skateboards either... Why not tax them to "what the market will bear"? Because alcohol and tobacco have "negative externalities" to society. These would be mainly health related but I guess the discussion on this post is also around behavioural issues. By adding a tax to a product, you can make the consumers and manufacturers together share the burden of paying off the externality, (e.g. care for lung cancer patients) and/or the tax will often discourage consumption in the first place. (The second being more applicable in the US where there is limited/no universal healthcare) The reason you probably wouldn't tax kale, is because it's good for you, and if anything; you could say it has a "positive externality" in that consuming it makes you healthier, and thus benefits society. So it might make sense to actual SUBSIDISE kale production... although this may have very different effects from taxing unhealthy food. As an example, Scotland has introduced a tax on alcohol called "minimum unit pricing" and there's a study here: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/5/e013497 https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/5/e013497 The UK as a whole also has a "sugar tax" https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/research/research-action/features/uk-sugar-tax-will-it-work https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/research/research-action/features/uk...