5 ms·

> the formation of encampments that can lead to unsanitary conditions and crimes such as drug dealing and gang activity Yes indeed, because of those ruthless g

> the formation of encampments that can lead to unsanitary conditions and crimes such as drug dealing and gang activity Yes indeed, because of those ruthless gangs of homeless drug dealers, what with their effective means to procure and transport expensive products without being noticed, and their total lack of any profit from said enterprise keeping them homeless.

cgriswald 7y ago
You’re railing against a straw man. Homeless people are vulnerable and many have drug habits. How could a homeless encampment NOT draw drug dealers and related criminal activity?
- peterwwillis 7y ago
  I'm hardly railing. In response to your question, they aren't a steady source of income for drug dealers, and drug dealers aren't just wandering the streets trying to sell drugs to people with no money. They stay on their turf and sell to people who come to them. And "related criminal activity"? Homeless people aren't criminal masterminds who collect all the city's neer-do-wells. They're just broken down people who need a place to lie down.
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    I don’t think you have any experience with one of these encampments. They bring crime, perpetrated both on and by homeless people. These are facts. No one has implied that homeless people are criminal masterminds operating vast syndicates.
    - peterwwillis 7y ago
      > They bring crime, perpetrated both on and by homeless people. These are facts. There is crime anywhere there are lots of people who have needs they can't meet, but even so, the crime rates aren't significant compared to other populations. Analysis such as this one by the Guardian show that the existence of homeless encampments don't have a direct link to crime rates: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/23/homeless-villages-crime-rate-seattle-portland https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/23/homeless-vil... Sometimes crime rates may increase slightly, and sometimes they decrease slightly. Reports like these go back decades: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040521&slug=tentcrime20m http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200...
      - cgriswald 7y ago
        You objected to the city of Boise talking about crime related to these encampments. Now you’ve accepted the crime happens, but you’re moving the goalposts to say the crime isn’t any worse. The crime is happening. A lot of the crime that occurs is against homeless people. It often goes unreported. It won’t affect crime rates. For a variety of other reasons it is not, in the general sense, a simple thing to measure. In no case are you going to convince the people with actual experiences that their experiences didn’t happen by waving a study at them.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  Isn't the usual solution, if it was a rich neighborhood, to arrest the drug dealers and related criminals? Or would they arrest all of the bystanders?

cgriswald 7y ago

You’re railing against a straw man. Homeless people are vulnerable and many have drug habits. How could a homeless encampment NOT draw drug dealers and related criminal activity?

peterwwillis 7y ago
I'm hardly railing. In response to your question, they aren't a steady source of income for drug dealers, and drug dealers aren't just wandering the streets trying to sell drugs to people with no money. They stay on their turf and sell to people who come to them. And "related criminal activity"? Homeless people aren't criminal masterminds who collect all the city's neer-do-wells. They're just broken down people who need a place to lie down.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  I don’t think you have any experience with one of these encampments. They bring crime, perpetrated both on and by homeless people. These are facts. No one has implied that homeless people are criminal masterminds operating vast syndicates.
  - peterwwillis 7y ago
    > They bring crime, perpetrated both on and by homeless people. These are facts. There is crime anywhere there are lots of people who have needs they can't meet, but even so, the crime rates aren't significant compared to other populations. Analysis such as this one by the Guardian show that the existence of homeless encampments don't have a direct link to crime rates: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/23/homeless-villages-crime-rate-seattle-portland https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/23/homeless-vil... Sometimes crime rates may increase slightly, and sometimes they decrease slightly. Reports like these go back decades: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040521&slug=tentcrime20m http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200...
    - cgriswald 7y ago
      You objected to the city of Boise talking about crime related to these encampments. Now you’ve accepted the crime happens, but you’re moving the goalposts to say the crime isn’t any worse. The crime is happening. A lot of the crime that occurs is against homeless people. It often goes unreported. It won’t affect crime rates. For a variety of other reasons it is not, in the general sense, a simple thing to measure. In no case are you going to convince the people with actual experiences that their experiences didn’t happen by waving a study at them.
greglindahl 7y ago
Isn't the usual solution, if it was a rich neighborhood, to arrest the drug dealers and related criminals? Or would they arrest all of the bystanders?