4 ms·

The terms of service are not that great, no step up from youtube. I can't understand why current businesses think it is right to simply allow themselfes to arbi

by bpfrh 7y ago

The terms of service are not that great, no step up from youtube. I can't understand why current businesses think it is right to simply allow themselfes to arbitarly raise fees and delete accounts and content without any warning.

tiborsaas 7y ago
You have to protect yourself. If you get offensive content then your best course of action is to get rid of it asap. Think of nazi propaganda, animal abuse or other freaky shit. And yes, the lines are blurry.
- bpfrh 7y ago
  It would be alright for me if the terms of use where: If your content is against the law, or does not conform to the guidelines that where written in the terms of use, it will be removed. And for the guidelines: A Guideline change will be communicated at least half a year before the changes This gives people ample time to other plattforms or move videos. EDIT: And of course if you are a repeate offender you get banned for X weeks/months/years, or you have to have a manuall review on each update which raises your fees.
  - tiborsaas 7y ago
    You are just framing the same thing in a different way. The ToS is lawyer speak, how they enforce it is a really different question. To provide a service for the vast majority you need powerful legal tools against the small, but smart devious users. Strict wording is part of this never ending battle. At YouTube scale it's very hard and injustice is baked into the system. With a service like Floatplane, you can police it fairly easily. To a point... :) Then they will start to feel the heat.
    - bpfrh 7y ago
      Not really. My idea binds them to certain terms e.g. they can only ban accounts if they don't follow guidelines,which means they have to give a reason which can be legally challenged. They can only change the guidelines after a warning period, which means they have more incentitive to be constructive with the community as they can move away in that time. As of now, if you join the plattform you only have very few gurantees. As per the terms right now, they could happily send you an E-Mail at around 1AM and change pledge fees to 300%. If that lands in the spam folder, you could not notice it until you have to pay. Then they could ban you and delete your account without any reason, without any refunds. Do I think they will do it? No Do I think a company which presents itself as a fair new company who wants to be fair etc. should have terms of use which enable such behaivour? No, I think it is high time that such terms of use are banned. I'm not even sure such terms would be legal in some countries.
- 1000units 7y ago
  Nazi propaganda are legitimate historical artifacts. These belong on the internet as much as anything else. Perhaps you instead mean neo-nazi propaganda or that belonging to some other political group that isn't wholly defunct.
Dayshine 7y ago
I agree, these terms are terrible for both "Pilots" (users) and "Creators". - Binding arbitration in Canada where the loser pays all costs. - They can increase "Pledge fees" arbitrarily with just a single email notifying you - All monthly/yearly payments are non-refundable, with no partial credit returned. So if a creator deletes their account or simply blocks you, you lose access and don't get any money back. If they refund you (extraordinary circumstances), it's only as credit. - When payments are delayed to Creators they will "try" to communicate the reason. - They will "try" to make payments "timely"# - They have catch-all consent for communication, can't opt out of spam.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Can you point to any business anywhere that doesn't reserve the right to raise prices? Would you be willing to work for your employer if they also guaranteed that your salary will never go up? Because that and a guarantee from all vendors the company uses would be needed. And are there companies out there that don't include required arbitration? Anyone that is setting up a huge one-to-many relationship has to cover their but. The fact that any or all of your users could sue you in court at any time creates a very risky business.

by bpfrh 7y ago

tiborsaas 7y ago

You have to protect yourself. If you get offensive content then your best course of action is to get rid of it asap. Think of nazi propaganda, animal abuse or other freaky shit. And yes, the lines are blurry.

bpfrh 7y ago
It would be alright for me if the terms of use where: If your content is against the law, or does not conform to the guidelines that where written in the terms of use, it will be removed. And for the guidelines: A Guideline change will be communicated at least half a year before the changes This gives people ample time to other plattforms or move videos. EDIT: And of course if you are a repeate offender you get banned for X weeks/months/years, or you have to have a manuall review on each update which raises your fees.
- tiborsaas 7y ago
  You are just framing the same thing in a different way. The ToS is lawyer speak, how they enforce it is a really different question. To provide a service for the vast majority you need powerful legal tools against the small, but smart devious users. Strict wording is part of this never ending battle. At YouTube scale it's very hard and injustice is baked into the system. With a service like Floatplane, you can police it fairly easily. To a point... :) Then they will start to feel the heat.
  - bpfrh 7y ago
    Not really. My idea binds them to certain terms e.g. they can only ban accounts if they don't follow guidelines,which means they have to give a reason which can be legally challenged. They can only change the guidelines after a warning period, which means they have more incentitive to be constructive with the community as they can move away in that time. As of now, if you join the plattform you only have very few gurantees. As per the terms right now, they could happily send you an E-Mail at around 1AM and change pledge fees to 300%. If that lands in the spam folder, you could not notice it until you have to pay. Then they could ban you and delete your account without any reason, without any refunds. Do I think they will do it? No Do I think a company which presents itself as a fair new company who wants to be fair etc. should have terms of use which enable such behaivour? No, I think it is high time that such terms of use are banned. I'm not even sure such terms would be legal in some countries.
1000units 7y ago
Nazi propaganda are legitimate historical artifacts. These belong on the internet as much as anything else. Perhaps you instead mean neo-nazi propaganda or that belonging to some other political group that isn't wholly defunct.

Dayshine 7y ago

I agree, these terms are terrible for both "Pilots" (users) and "Creators". - Binding arbitration in Canada where the loser pays all costs. - They can increase "Pledge fees" arbitrarily with just a single email notifying you - All monthly/yearly payments are non-refundable, with no partial credit returned. So if a creator deletes their account or simply blocks you, you lose access and don't get any money back. If they refund you (extraordinary circumstances), it's only as credit. - When payments are delayed to Creators they will "try" to communicate the reason. - They will "try" to make payments "timely"# - They have catch-all consent for communication, can't opt out of spam.

jjeaff 7y ago
Can you point to any business anywhere that doesn't reserve the right to raise prices? Would you be willing to work for your employer if they also guaranteed that your salary will never go up? Because that and a guarantee from all vendors the company uses would be needed. And are there companies out there that don't include required arbitration? Anyone that is setting up a huge one-to-many relationship has to cover their but. The fact that any or all of your users could sue you in court at any time creates a very risky business.