4 ms·

The original studies didn't control for wealth. Wealthy people drink moderately, and live the longest. So technically it was never safe if you control for wealt

The original studies didn't control for wealth. Wealthy people drink moderately, and live the longest. So technically it was never safe if you control for wealth.

cies 7y ago
I understood that the 2/day thing was measured on an on average quite obese population. And that doing the test on exclusively healthy individuals would result in 2/day, everyday, being a disaster. (Not sure where I read this, most likely in Greger's "How Not To Die"). Its like you give the obese a little blood thinner, which is like a medicine for them. But not for the rest.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  Considering that obesity related cirrhosis is starting to outpace the alcohol version, I'd say that doing both probably isn't a good thing, and is in fact compounding the potential liver issues.
  - cies 7y ago
    The liver is a rather forgiving organ. High blood pressure and whatever-sclerosis are not so forgiving. Alcohol seems to help on the second ones.
barrkel 7y ago
Wealthy people drink more; drinking is correlated with income [1][2]. The catch is that wealthy people don't suffer like poor people do when they drink, and wealthy people are less likely to be full-blown alcoholics. It's not clear which ways the causality goes, though. [1] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/rich-people-drinking-more https://www.healthline.com/health-news/rich-people-drinking-... [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170511095038.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170511095038.h...
- thrownaway954 7y ago
  "wealthy people are less likely to be full-blown alcoholics" - total bullshit. Sorry, but walk into any once a week church AA meetings and you will find many wealthy alcoholics there. The difference is that wealthy people can afford a lawyer and don't suffer the same devastating economic consequences from their drinking as the poor so it takes them longer to hit their bottom and finally admit they have a problem they can't control.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    I think this is a knee-jerk overreaction. Poor people can be alcoholics, and rich people can be alcoholics. But rich people tend to have a lot of luxuries that poor people don't, and those luxuries make it easier not to lean on alcohol as a dependency to get by. The biggest predictor of recovery from an addiction is whether or not the addict has a safety net. Rich people can buy a safety net (if they don't have close friends, they can pay for life coaches, therapists, and more). Poor people either have it or they don't. I could easily believe that genetic predisposition to addiction is the same regardless of wealth (I'd actually be somewhat surprised if it weren't true), but the reality is that rich people have a lot more support to help them through their struggles than poor people.
  - csallen 7y ago
    > Sorry, but walk into any once a week church AA meetings and you will find many wealthy alcoholics there. This type of anecdata is meaningless for assessing anything. Not only is your sample size tiny and biased based on where you live, but there's selection bias due to the fact that some types of alcoholics don't go to church AA meetings. > The difference is that… As usual, there are likely many differences, rather than just one. Studies have shown that wealthy people drink more, likely because they can afford to drink more. They're also more likely to seek and afford healthcare, therapy, gyms, healthy food, etc., not just lawyers.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - barrkel 7y ago
zozbot234 7y ago
Moderate drinking may not be "safe", but binge drinking is a lot worse. For one thing, wealthy people who drink alcohol out of tradition do not generally become alcoholic, or even go "black out drunk" and get into all sorts of social dangers and/or grossly antisocial behavior as a result.

The original studies didn't control for wealth. Wealthy people drink moderately, and live the longest. So technically it was never safe if you control for wealth.

cies 7y ago

I understood that the 2/day thing was measured on an on average quite obese population. And that doing the test on exclusively healthy individuals would result in 2/day, everyday, being a disaster. (Not sure where I read this, most likely in Greger's "How Not To Die"). Its like you give the obese a little blood thinner, which is like a medicine for them. But not for the rest.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
Considering that obesity related cirrhosis is starting to outpace the alcohol version, I'd say that doing both probably isn't a good thing, and is in fact compounding the potential liver issues.
- cies 7y ago
  The liver is a rather forgiving organ. High blood pressure and whatever-sclerosis are not so forgiving. Alcohol seems to help on the second ones.

barrkel 7y ago

Wealthy people drink more; drinking is correlated with income [1][2]. The catch is that wealthy people don't suffer like poor people do when they drink, and wealthy people are less likely to be full-blown alcoholics. It's not clear which ways the causality goes, though. [1] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/rich-people-drinking-more https://www.healthline.com/health-news/rich-people-drinking-... [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170511095038.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170511095038.h...

thrownaway954 7y ago
"wealthy people are less likely to be full-blown alcoholics" - total bullshit. Sorry, but walk into any once a week church AA meetings and you will find many wealthy alcoholics there. The difference is that wealthy people can afford a lawyer and don't suffer the same devastating economic consequences from their drinking as the poor so it takes them longer to hit their bottom and finally admit they have a problem they can't control.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  I think this is a knee-jerk overreaction. Poor people can be alcoholics, and rich people can be alcoholics. But rich people tend to have a lot of luxuries that poor people don't, and those luxuries make it easier not to lean on alcohol as a dependency to get by. The biggest predictor of recovery from an addiction is whether or not the addict has a safety net. Rich people can buy a safety net (if they don't have close friends, they can pay for life coaches, therapists, and more). Poor people either have it or they don't. I could easily believe that genetic predisposition to addiction is the same regardless of wealth (I'd actually be somewhat surprised if it weren't true), but the reality is that rich people have a lot more support to help them through their struggles than poor people.
- csallen 7y ago
  > Sorry, but walk into any once a week church AA meetings and you will find many wealthy alcoholics there. This type of anecdata is meaningless for assessing anything. Not only is your sample size tiny and biased based on where you live, but there's selection bias due to the fact that some types of alcoholics don't go to church AA meetings. > The difference is that… As usual, there are likely many differences, rather than just one. Studies have shown that wealthy people drink more, likely because they can afford to drink more. They're also more likely to seek and afford healthcare, therapy, gyms, healthy food, etc., not just lawyers.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- barrkel 7y ago

zozbot234 7y ago

Moderate drinking may not be "safe", but binge drinking is a lot worse. For one thing, wealthy people who drink alcohol out of tradition do not generally become alcoholic, or even go "black out drunk" and get into all sorts of social dangers and/or grossly antisocial behavior as a result.