6 ms·

Google to stop giving Android license for upcoming phones in Turkey over fine

34 points by aksoar 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago
TL93M us US15M, which seems small for Google to get upset about. These measures will likely not bother anyone except consumers.
- josefx 7y ago
  When Google was hit with a fine in the EU for the same reason they just added a new licensing region with alternative licensing terms. It is interesting to see how Google behaves when it thinks the power balance is reversed.
  - mcv 7y ago
    In other words: Google is aware it can't take on the EU, but thinks it's strong enough take on Turkey. It'll be interesting to see how this works out. I have no love for the current regime in Turkey, but I wouldn't mind seeing this blow up in Google's face. We need a more open Android.
    - cjhopman 7y ago
      In both cases Google chose to follow the law of the region. In one of those cases, it was most profitable to continue selling under the constraints imposed by the law and in the other case it wasn't profitable to do so.
      - mcv 7y ago
        It's creating a large market for Google alternatives on Android. Those alternatives are currently tiny, but might get big in Turkey, and then expand outside Turkey.
        zmc 7y ago
        There is already a big market called China that entirely use alternative solution. I guess those company in China will be more than happy to take over once Google leave.
- exikyut 7y ago
  Hmmmm. $15MM USD is nothing. Initially I wondered if this was some kind of smokescreen, or a public response to some private action that wasn't liked. But thinking about it... maybe it's simpler, and Google are just unimpressed someone's having a go at them for being anticompetitive. In which case this action is very concerning, because it says "yeah, we're it and we know it. Deal with it." That has significant chilling-effect potential. Because I'm not seeing any evidence or suggestion of corruption here, but rather an interest in establishing truth.
  - aksoar 7y ago
    The second option seems more likely. The more concerning thing is how Google is starting to use its power when it isn't happy with something. Google doesn't even seem to care about appearing "friendly" or harmless as it used to do. It's now acting like a king without a rival.. when it can.
    - exikyut 7y ago
      Hmm. The good thing is that this suggests they've apparently hit the complacency plateau that everybody large seems to hit that marks their modus-operandi as "set in stone". The sad thing is that they're the only company with (presumably - but if you think about it...) multiple exabytes of RAM to hold a greppable copy of the Internet in, so nobody's realistically going to beat them at the game anytime soon D: Also, I was going to say but forgot (was on mobile) - this was an anticompetitivity investigation, and that was why I said their attitude of "yes we are indeed 'it'" was so concerning. Kind of like, "whatcha gonna do about it, huh?"
      - Razengan 7y ago
        Google Search is far, far, far, FAR from a "greppable copy of the Internet in" and it keeps getting worse. It certainly doesn't seem to be difficult to imagine someone coming up with a better search engine.
        exikyut 7y ago
- tim-- 7y ago
  Maybe the Turkish government could put this money into a fund that companies based there can use to create open source software to de-Google Android in response. At least no one will be able to say then that there is no competition issues. More information : https://ahvalnews.com/google/google-suspends-licences-turkey-after-fined-violating-competition-law https://ahvalnews.com/google/google-suspends-licences-turkey...
  - josefx 7y ago
    You would have to force Android manufacturers to also provide Google free versions of their products. One only has to look at Microsofts history to see that backroom deals will keep alternatives of the table unless forced.
    - deogeo 7y ago
      Or the history of Android itself - Google forbade manufacturers from making competing alternatives as part of its confidential licensing agreements: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-antitrust/google-faces-eu-antitrust-fine-over-android-case-in-july-sources-idUSKCN1J31SP https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-antitrust/googl...
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    The real obstacle to degoogled mobile OS's is not software (AOSP exists, pmOS will become usable soon, etc. etc.) but access to online services of all sorts. Google Play is a focal point for distributing the official "app" for your online service of choice. But if a whole country goes Google-free this can definitely change.
    - knolax 7y ago
      In practice, without access to Google Play people just use third party app stores like F-Droid or just download the apk from the web like on a normal computer. It really doesn't seem like that much of a loss for Turkey.
dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
It looks like more and more countries are starting to have very good reasons to partner with Huawei. It's not the kind of freedom of choice I hoped for, but it's probably better than the current duopoly.
- tanto 7y ago
  Problem is that the leadership at Google/Apple has to publicly agree with western values. If they really believe in them or not I don't know. To some degree there is an incentive to respect e.g. human rights. The leadership at Huawei has to be very careful if they want to state agreement or acceptance of western values. That might even put them into prison. If they dare to act on western values in their own country they might be killed. I personally prefer the company which at least has to act as if they value my humanity than the one which outright would strip it from me anytime as there is no incentive at all to consider it.
usr1106 7y ago
The arguments of anti-competitive behaviour are probably correct. Unfortunately Turkey is not a good example because their justice system lacks credibility in general. One would hope that a more credible player like EU or at least Germany or France really stands up against Google.
- josefx 7y ago
  That already happened[1], the resulting change to Googles licensing terms was explicitly limited to the EU. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_vs._Google#EU%27s_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_vs._Google#EU%2...
  - usr1106 7y ago
    Yes, I know that there are legal proceedings. And Google has been fined and is appealing. However, the impact for the customer has been neglectable. You cannot do banking on your phone, you cannot buy a public transit ticket or a fishing permit without Google Play Store or some serious hacking. (Apple is an alternative, but not one respecting your freedom any better).
    - mcv 7y ago
      A lot of people across the world are trying to figure out how to de-Googlify their Android phones. Now all of Turkey is suddenly forced to de-Googlify their phones. Let's hope that encourages reliable alternatives to Google Play services.

34 points by aksoar 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

TL93M us US15M, which seems small for Google to get upset about. These measures will likely not bother anyone except consumers.

josefx 7y ago
When Google was hit with a fine in the EU for the same reason they just added a new licensing region with alternative licensing terms. It is interesting to see how Google behaves when it thinks the power balance is reversed.
- mcv 7y ago
  In other words: Google is aware it can't take on the EU, but thinks it's strong enough take on Turkey. It'll be interesting to see how this works out. I have no love for the current regime in Turkey, but I wouldn't mind seeing this blow up in Google's face. We need a more open Android.
  - cjhopman 7y ago
    In both cases Google chose to follow the law of the region. In one of those cases, it was most profitable to continue selling under the constraints imposed by the law and in the other case it wasn't profitable to do so.
    - mcv 7y ago
      It's creating a large market for Google alternatives on Android. Those alternatives are currently tiny, but might get big in Turkey, and then expand outside Turkey.
      - zmc 7y ago
        There is already a big market called China that entirely use alternative solution. I guess those company in China will be more than happy to take over once Google leave.
exikyut 7y ago
Hmmmm. $15MM USD is nothing. Initially I wondered if this was some kind of smokescreen, or a public response to some private action that wasn't liked. But thinking about it... maybe it's simpler, and Google are just unimpressed someone's having a go at them for being anticompetitive. In which case this action is very concerning, because it says "yeah, we're it and we know it. Deal with it." That has significant chilling-effect potential. Because I'm not seeing any evidence or suggestion of corruption here, but rather an interest in establishing truth.
- aksoar 7y ago
  The second option seems more likely. The more concerning thing is how Google is starting to use its power when it isn't happy with something. Google doesn't even seem to care about appearing "friendly" or harmless as it used to do. It's now acting like a king without a rival.. when it can.
  - exikyut 7y ago
    Hmm. The good thing is that this suggests they've apparently hit the complacency plateau that everybody large seems to hit that marks their modus-operandi as "set in stone". The sad thing is that they're the only company with (presumably - but if you think about it...) multiple exabytes of RAM to hold a greppable copy of the Internet in, so nobody's realistically going to beat them at the game anytime soon D: Also, I was going to say but forgot (was on mobile) - this was an anticompetitivity investigation, and that was why I said their attitude of "yes we are indeed 'it'" was so concerning. Kind of like, "whatcha gonna do about it, huh?"
    - Razengan 7y ago
      Google Search is far, far, far, FAR from a "greppable copy of the Internet in" and it keeps getting worse. It certainly doesn't seem to be difficult to imagine someone coming up with a better search engine.
      - exikyut 7y ago
tim-- 7y ago
Maybe the Turkish government could put this money into a fund that companies based there can use to create open source software to de-Google Android in response. At least no one will be able to say then that there is no competition issues. More information : https://ahvalnews.com/google/google-suspends-licences-turkey-after-fined-violating-competition-law https://ahvalnews.com/google/google-suspends-licences-turkey...
- josefx 7y ago
  You would have to force Android manufacturers to also provide Google free versions of their products. One only has to look at Microsofts history to see that backroom deals will keep alternatives of the table unless forced.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    Or the history of Android itself - Google forbade manufacturers from making competing alternatives as part of its confidential licensing agreements: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-antitrust/google-faces-eu-antitrust-fine-over-android-case-in-july-sources-idUSKCN1J31SP https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-google-antitrust/googl...
- zozbot234 7y ago
  The real obstacle to degoogled mobile OS's is not software (AOSP exists, pmOS will become usable soon, etc. etc.) but access to online services of all sorts. Google Play is a focal point for distributing the official "app" for your online service of choice. But if a whole country goes Google-free this can definitely change.
  - knolax 7y ago
    In practice, without access to Google Play people just use third party app stores like F-Droid or just download the apk from the web like on a normal computer. It really doesn't seem like that much of a loss for Turkey.

dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago

It looks like more and more countries are starting to have very good reasons to partner with Huawei. It's not the kind of freedom of choice I hoped for, but it's probably better than the current duopoly.

tanto 7y ago
Problem is that the leadership at Google/Apple has to publicly agree with western values. If they really believe in them or not I don't know. To some degree there is an incentive to respect e.g. human rights. The leadership at Huawei has to be very careful if they want to state agreement or acceptance of western values. That might even put them into prison. If they dare to act on western values in their own country they might be killed. I personally prefer the company which at least has to act as if they value my humanity than the one which outright would strip it from me anytime as there is no incentive at all to consider it.

usr1106 7y ago

The arguments of anti-competitive behaviour are probably correct. Unfortunately Turkey is not a good example because their justice system lacks credibility in general. One would hope that a more credible player like EU or at least Germany or France really stands up against Google.

josefx 7y ago
That already happened[1], the resulting change to Googles licensing terms was explicitly limited to the EU. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_vs._Google#EU%27s_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_vs._Google#EU%2...
- usr1106 7y ago
  Yes, I know that there are legal proceedings. And Google has been fined and is appealing. However, the impact for the customer has been neglectable. You cannot do banking on your phone, you cannot buy a public transit ticket or a fishing permit without Google Play Store or some serious hacking. (Apple is an alternative, but not one respecting your freedom any better).
  - mcv 7y ago
    A lot of people across the world are trying to figure out how to de-Googlify their Android phones. Now all of Turkey is suddenly forced to de-Googlify their phones. Let's hope that encourages reliable alternatives to Google Play services.