4 ms·

It's not just about improving the bandwidth (although that is nice), the one thing I wouldn't trade that the Ergodox gives me is a very low error rate in typing

by ganonm 7y ago

It's not just about improving the bandwidth (although that is nice), the one thing I wouldn't trade that the Ergodox gives me is a very low error rate in typing. This is hard to achieve with a traditional keyboard, especially when you starting throwing special characters into the mix that require two-handed contortions. I've heard the refrain "you don't spend most of your time typing when programming" so many times it's almost become a trope. I personally spend enough time typing during a typical day (working or otherwise) that I really appreciate the benefits of a highly optimised keyboard setup, although of course YMMV. I don't think the argument holds water.

honkycat 7y ago
Agreed. That statement is one of those catty oft repeated things we are supposed to take as gospel for some reason. Personally: I spend ALL DAY typing. Configurations, code, documentation, tutorials, arguments for doing things one way or another, user stories for work, chatting with my coworkers, running cli commands. I see a huge difference in my productivity between myself and my peers partly due to my faster text input and editing skills.
terranoct 7y ago
It's not the bandwidth per se, so much it's the continuous attention cost spent on keeping that bandwidth going. Better tactile feedback and more reliable input means I don't have to constantly multitask half a task worth of attention onto making sure the input I think I'm doing went off as intended, which makes it easier to concentrate on the main task, which reduces the build up of fatigue, which reduces the rate at which the cost of mental effort increases throughout the day. Which is not to mention things like the chance of getting hand cramps from the additional tension there caused by interacting with a less reliable keyboard, and by the tendency to use excess input force in attempt to get strokes through more consistently.
- tomc1985 7y ago
  By my read y'all need more practice typing, not a fancy expensive ergo keyboard. Other than the occasional hand cramps this lifelong nerd doesn't have any of those problems on this old, mushy MS natural.
  - Baeocystin 7y ago
    Fully agreed. I am very thankful that I took typewriting classes when I was younger. I do not think it is a coincidence that I also do not have trouble with keyboards being difficult to type on, unlike 90%+ of the folks I work with. Just plain putting in the hours of practice on proper form may not be a very exciting answer, but I can't think of a more effective one.
    - UI_at_80x24 7y ago
      I agree 100% with you on this. My first year of high-school we had a typing class on an IBM Selectric keyboard. Our teacher was a wizened old secretary that for a considerable portion of her career used a non-electric typewriter. What has always stayed with me was her guidance on posture and form. The 'piano style'* on which she insisted is almost completely contrary to modern ergonomic teachings, and yet I can say almost 40-years later; still works and is effective. I readily admit that I'm probably lucky too in that I don't follow that guidance to the T, I do however follow the basic form of it. This anecdote simply agrees with your statement. *: 'piano style' wrists higher then knuckles, finger-tips hovering/barely touching home-row, back straight
      - Symbiote 7y ago
        > The 'piano style'* on which she insisted is almost completely contrary to modern ergonomic teachings What? That seems to be exactly the current advice. http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-at-computer/ http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-a... http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html (First two hits from a Google search.)
  - BigJ1211 7y ago
    I thought so too untill I started having RSI/CTS issues. I've since switched to a 'fancy expensive ergo keyboard'. And it fantastic, I'm about as fast as I was on a traditional qwerty, but with less errors. However most importantly I have far less RSI/CTS complaints when typing on my redox than I do with a non-split (even ergo non-splits). My arms are in a far more natural position and so is my wrist thanks to the tenting and tilting I can do with the redox. So if you are typing a lot, I would recommend getting an ergo before you start having issues. For reference I could type about a paragraph in one go on a regular keyboard, now I can type an entire page before I start having pains/cramps.
clarry 7y ago
> I've heard the refrain "you don't spend most of your time typing when programming" so many times it's almost become a trope. Yeah. Yet, when you switch to a completely different (and maybe not very comfortable) keyboard layout and get slowed down to 50% of your usual speed and make a lot more typos, it just immediately shows how incredibly frustrating coding can get even if typing isn't the primary challenge in it. Input should flow effortlessly and comfortably. That just makes it easier to focus on the more important stuff.

by ganonm 7y ago

honkycat 7y ago

Agreed. That statement is one of those catty oft repeated things we are supposed to take as gospel for some reason. Personally: I spend ALL DAY typing. Configurations, code, documentation, tutorials, arguments for doing things one way or another, user stories for work, chatting with my coworkers, running cli commands. I see a huge difference in my productivity between myself and my peers partly due to my faster text input and editing skills.

terranoct 7y ago

It's not the bandwidth per se, so much it's the continuous attention cost spent on keeping that bandwidth going. Better tactile feedback and more reliable input means I don't have to constantly multitask half a task worth of attention onto making sure the input I think I'm doing went off as intended, which makes it easier to concentrate on the main task, which reduces the build up of fatigue, which reduces the rate at which the cost of mental effort increases throughout the day. Which is not to mention things like the chance of getting hand cramps from the additional tension there caused by interacting with a less reliable keyboard, and by the tendency to use excess input force in attempt to get strokes through more consistently.

tomc1985 7y ago
By my read y'all need more practice typing, not a fancy expensive ergo keyboard. Other than the occasional hand cramps this lifelong nerd doesn't have any of those problems on this old, mushy MS natural.
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  Fully agreed. I am very thankful that I took typewriting classes when I was younger. I do not think it is a coincidence that I also do not have trouble with keyboards being difficult to type on, unlike 90%+ of the folks I work with. Just plain putting in the hours of practice on proper form may not be a very exciting answer, but I can't think of a more effective one.
  - UI_at_80x24 7y ago
    I agree 100% with you on this. My first year of high-school we had a typing class on an IBM Selectric keyboard. Our teacher was a wizened old secretary that for a considerable portion of her career used a non-electric typewriter. What has always stayed with me was her guidance on posture and form. The 'piano style'* on which she insisted is almost completely contrary to modern ergonomic teachings, and yet I can say almost 40-years later; still works and is effective. I readily admit that I'm probably lucky too in that I don't follow that guidance to the T, I do however follow the basic form of it. This anecdote simply agrees with your statement. *: 'piano style' wrists higher then knuckles, finger-tips hovering/barely touching home-row, back straight
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      > The 'piano style'* on which she insisted is almost completely contrary to modern ergonomic teachings What? That seems to be exactly the current advice. http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-at-computer/ http://ergonomictrends.com/proper-ergonomic-typing-posture-a... http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html (First two hits from a Google search.)
- BigJ1211 7y ago
  I thought so too untill I started having RSI/CTS issues. I've since switched to a 'fancy expensive ergo keyboard'. And it fantastic, I'm about as fast as I was on a traditional qwerty, but with less errors. However most importantly I have far less RSI/CTS complaints when typing on my redox than I do with a non-split (even ergo non-splits). My arms are in a far more natural position and so is my wrist thanks to the tenting and tilting I can do with the redox. So if you are typing a lot, I would recommend getting an ergo before you start having issues. For reference I could type about a paragraph in one go on a regular keyboard, now I can type an entire page before I start having pains/cramps.

clarry 7y ago

> I've heard the refrain "you don't spend most of your time typing when programming" so many times it's almost become a trope. Yeah. Yet, when you switch to a completely different (and maybe not very comfortable) keyboard layout and get slowed down to 50% of your usual speed and make a lot more typos, it just immediately shows how incredibly frustrating coding can get even if typing isn't the primary challenge in it. Input should flow effortlessly and comfortably. That just makes it easier to focus on the more important stuff.