4 ms·

My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "th

My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "that guy" when you set it up. Personally for the same hurdle, I prefer a secondary screen on the go) - you will mostly work on the same machine (or you have multiple keyboards, one for each machine, and if you are in a data center or tech support, you move with your keyboard). - you will not be exposed to many different keyboards, or layouts (e.g: you don't need to go help users and customers on their machine that don't allow plugging in, you don't teach, you don't use your phone a lot, etc). Switching layouts all the time is a nightmare. - you can afford the initial lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output). - cables and taking space are ok. Taste is taste, after all. - you have the money, and find it is better invested in this than say, a better screen, mouse, graphic card, battery, etc. And renewal. Or you have enough to have it all. - you are certain of this model is what you need or you can afford trying many. There are many ergonomic keyboards. They are all special and expensive in their own way. - your layout is available. I'm french, I use AZERTY. Or you are fine learning to type with the wrong letters, or using stickers. I often buy/user computers in/from the US, and just type from memory after setting the QWERTY to an AZERTY layout. One of my friend like Dvorak (actually Bepo, the fr version)... - nobody else than you will use your computer. Or you have several setup and are ok to switch every time. Now I understand that as it's my job, optimizing this key element of it makes sense. But hell, that's a lot of per-requisites.

steve19 7y ago
> - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output) Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.
- username90 7y ago
  Is RSI even that normal? I have never heard anyone talk about it in real life, only in these threads does it seem like everyone has it.
  - steve19 7y ago
    No it is not "normal" but for people who suffer from it, it is very debilitating.
  - aspaceman 7y ago
    It's really common for computer programmers. In every big corp I've been in, there's usually one of 10 people who has an issue with it and uses some weird keyboard. I have pretty bad RSI and it comes from just being a computer user since I was 3 and developing bad habits along the way.
    - jandrese 7y ago
      My impression is that it hits data entry clerks a lot harder than programmers. Programmers end up having to stop and take breaks frequently to think about what they're doing. A thought occurs: Are RSI issues worse with enterprise Java programmers and other people who end up having to write tons of boilerplate around all of their code?
      - adrianN 7y ago
        Java has excellent code completion, so you don't end up typing most of the characters that end up in the source file.
  - lostdog 7y ago
    It is pretty common. People are afraid to talk about it, so they generally won't bring it up.
  - mcbits 7y ago
    I had pretty severe carpal tunnel syndrome for about a year when I did data entry full time. What helped was improving my posture, not tensing up and slamming the keyboard at full force all day, and resting/shaking out my wrists every 15-30 minutes during extended typing. I have a mechanical keyboard today but doubt it would have helped more than any other (much cheaper) keyboard that requires less keypress force. The problem is that squishy $5 cubicle keyboards tend to be really, really bad in that regard.
- BiteCode_dev 7y ago
  My experience from switching keyboards or layout is that there is a initial cost in productivity: you type way more slowly and it's harder to think, for a few days up to a few months depending of the importance of the change.
baroffoos 7y ago
Thats a long list of requirements and yet none of them apply to me as well as the other people I work with. As a software developer I always use the same computer and I have never needed to type on someone else's computer
- BiteCode_dev 7y ago
  So you don't share your computer with kids or the spouse (you have money or no spouse/kids), don't teach, don't do much on site user support, don't visit much clients, don't travel for pleasure or family much, don't use much virtual keyboards, are not at a university, etc. It's not a good or a bad thing, but it would be a mistake to generalize it.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    No, I don't do those things. Sharing a computer is a fairly uncommon activity for me and most people I know. And even if it is something you need to do every now and then it is always possible to add an extra layer to your kb config which is the standard layout so other people can use it.
jmiserez 7y ago
Here's my solution to these issues: 1. I am "that guy", but who cares? It's like a carpenter bringing his own tools. I bought a second one after 1 year of lugging it around, because it's worth it to me. 2. Use/buy US QWERTY on everything, with US-International dead keys. I've been typing German (QWERTZ) this way for >10 years now, and it makes some programming tasks/tools easier to use. 3. Alternatively get a set of blank keycaps for your keyboard. This is actually a key ;-) feature of mechanical keyboards, you can get keycaps in all shapes and sizes and even custom printed ones. I use blanks or US QWERTY. 4. Keep a second (regular) keyboard plugged in case a coworker comes around. This is easy, as there is usually one on the desk already. 5. Borrow keyboards from friends for 2 weeks and try them out full-time. Some that I've tried were downright painful. I know it's hard to return stuff in Europe but if you can, try to. 6. Although expensive I think it's a good investment, especially if may prevent health issues in the future. Some employers may even pay for it, or offer an alternative.
- BiteCode_dev 7y ago
  Those are not solutions, those are workarounds, incomplete ones, and for only half the things I mentioned. You may accept the price of those compromises depending of your context, what's important and the ROI or course. That's what our jobs are about after all. I don't mean to say you should not buy those keyboards, I only want to provide another point of view.
  - jmiserez 7y ago
    I totally agree, but it's not all black and white. You can still have nice things N% of the time, and just fallback to the regular stuff when away from your desk. Also the keyboard community isn't always rational or focused on ROI. It's both parts ergonomics (preventing health issues) and optimizing for productivity and nice working conditions (regardless of cost).
Symbiote 7y ago
I think you're overstating the difficulties here. The overwhelming majority of people use the same one or two computers (one at work, one at home), and don't mind using a laptop keyboard when travelling to a meeting or visiting a client. Anyway, since you're in Europe, don't you have a mixture of keyboards amongst your colleagues anyway? I certainly do -- I've noticed US, UK, Danish, French, Swedish, German and Russian printed keyboards. There are also about 4 kinds of ergonomic mice in use, of which two look pretty weird -- and the users of these mice are not developers, they just had/have RSI issues.
- BiteCode_dev 7y ago
  Every case is different, that's my point. The keyboard match a very specific profile: geeky user typing a lot, with few occasions to be forced to switch. For me, as a trainer, I'm constantly on other's people machine. Thanks god they are all the same layout. As a freelancer dev I also can't be less productive for 3 months. As someone that travels a lot, I don't want to package a keyboard in my bag back. Planes make you pay extra for to check luggages in now a day. Beside for the space, I'd rather have a portable secondary screen: the gain of productivity is way higher. Again, not saying you should not buy the keyboard. It may be a very good choice for you. Just speaking of the other side of the coin.
  - ruiseal 7y ago
    I have quite an idiosyncratic keyboard layout and when I switch to use someone else's (normal) keyboard I'm puzzled for a moment but then switch into it. You might find you can do this easier than you think. Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it.
    - BiteCode_dev 7y ago
      > Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it. Probably the best idea so far, yes.

steve19 7y ago

> - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output) Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.

username90 7y ago
Is RSI even that normal? I have never heard anyone talk about it in real life, only in these threads does it seem like everyone has it.
- steve19 7y ago
  No it is not "normal" but for people who suffer from it, it is very debilitating.
- aspaceman 7y ago
  It's really common for computer programmers. In every big corp I've been in, there's usually one of 10 people who has an issue with it and uses some weird keyboard. I have pretty bad RSI and it comes from just being a computer user since I was 3 and developing bad habits along the way.
  - jandrese 7y ago
    My impression is that it hits data entry clerks a lot harder than programmers. Programmers end up having to stop and take breaks frequently to think about what they're doing. A thought occurs: Are RSI issues worse with enterprise Java programmers and other people who end up having to write tons of boilerplate around all of their code?
    - adrianN 7y ago
      Java has excellent code completion, so you don't end up typing most of the characters that end up in the source file.
- lostdog 7y ago
  It is pretty common. People are afraid to talk about it, so they generally won't bring it up.
- mcbits 7y ago
  I had pretty severe carpal tunnel syndrome for about a year when I did data entry full time. What helped was improving my posture, not tensing up and slamming the keyboard at full force all day, and resting/shaking out my wrists every 15-30 minutes during extended typing. I have a mechanical keyboard today but doubt it would have helped more than any other (much cheaper) keyboard that requires less keypress force. The problem is that squishy $5 cubicle keyboards tend to be really, really bad in that regard.
BiteCode_dev 7y ago
My experience from switching keyboards or layout is that there is a initial cost in productivity: you type way more slowly and it's harder to think, for a few days up to a few months depending of the importance of the change.

baroffoos 7y ago

Thats a long list of requirements and yet none of them apply to me as well as the other people I work with. As a software developer I always use the same computer and I have never needed to type on someone else's computer

BiteCode_dev 7y ago
So you don't share your computer with kids or the spouse (you have money or no spouse/kids), don't teach, don't do much on site user support, don't visit much clients, don't travel for pleasure or family much, don't use much virtual keyboards, are not at a university, etc. It's not a good or a bad thing, but it would be a mistake to generalize it.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  No, I don't do those things. Sharing a computer is a fairly uncommon activity for me and most people I know. And even if it is something you need to do every now and then it is always possible to add an extra layer to your kb config which is the standard layout so other people can use it.

jmiserez 7y ago

Here's my solution to these issues: 1. I am "that guy", but who cares? It's like a carpenter bringing his own tools. I bought a second one after 1 year of lugging it around, because it's worth it to me. 2. Use/buy US QWERTY on everything, with US-International dead keys. I've been typing German (QWERTZ) this way for >10 years now, and it makes some programming tasks/tools easier to use. 3. Alternatively get a set of blank keycaps for your keyboard. This is actually a key ;-) feature of mechanical keyboards, you can get keycaps in all shapes and sizes and even custom printed ones. I use blanks or US QWERTY. 4. Keep a second (regular) keyboard plugged in case a coworker comes around. This is easy, as there is usually one on the desk already. 5. Borrow keyboards from friends for 2 weeks and try them out full-time. Some that I've tried were downright painful. I know it's hard to return stuff in Europe but if you can, try to. 6. Although expensive I think it's a good investment, especially if may prevent health issues in the future. Some employers may even pay for it, or offer an alternative.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago
Those are not solutions, those are workarounds, incomplete ones, and for only half the things I mentioned. You may accept the price of those compromises depending of your context, what's important and the ROI or course. That's what our jobs are about after all. I don't mean to say you should not buy those keyboards, I only want to provide another point of view.
- jmiserez 7y ago
  I totally agree, but it's not all black and white. You can still have nice things N% of the time, and just fallback to the regular stuff when away from your desk. Also the keyboard community isn't always rational or focused on ROI. It's both parts ergonomics (preventing health issues) and optimizing for productivity and nice working conditions (regardless of cost).

Symbiote 7y ago

I think you're overstating the difficulties here. The overwhelming majority of people use the same one or two computers (one at work, one at home), and don't mind using a laptop keyboard when travelling to a meeting or visiting a client. Anyway, since you're in Europe, don't you have a mixture of keyboards amongst your colleagues anyway? I certainly do -- I've noticed US, UK, Danish, French, Swedish, German and Russian printed keyboards. There are also about 4 kinds of ergonomic mice in use, of which two look pretty weird -- and the users of these mice are not developers, they just had/have RSI issues.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago
Every case is different, that's my point. The keyboard match a very specific profile: geeky user typing a lot, with few occasions to be forced to switch. For me, as a trainer, I'm constantly on other's people machine. Thanks god they are all the same layout. As a freelancer dev I also can't be less productive for 3 months. As someone that travels a lot, I don't want to package a keyboard in my bag back. Planes make you pay extra for to check luggages in now a day. Beside for the space, I'd rather have a portable secondary screen: the gain of productivity is way higher. Again, not saying you should not buy the keyboard. It may be a very good choice for you. Just speaking of the other side of the coin.
- ruiseal 7y ago
  I have quite an idiosyncratic keyboard layout and when I switch to use someone else's (normal) keyboard I'm puzzled for a moment but then switch into it. You might find you can do this easier than you think. Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it.
  - BiteCode_dev 7y ago
    > Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it. Probably the best idea so far, yes.