3 ms·

I want a keyboard with an extra row of keys (I could use for additional characters in a custom layout) between the letters and the numbers. Is this possible?

wpasc 7y ago
you could get a keyboard with the standard function keys and create a custom keymap where the function keys did the numbers and the numbers did whatever you wanted
wielebny 7y ago
I use ms natural keyboard 4000 just because of that - extra row of keys that can be programmed to the liking. It's a shame that it does not have a USB hub (previous version had it) and that newer versions lack this row.
Symbiote 7y ago
Do you still want the F1-F12 keys? If you don't, choose a keyboard with an appropriate physical arrangement (I happen to have [1], which would work for this), and program it accordingly -- any mechanical keyboard lets you move the key mapping around. Optionally swap the plastic key caps around. (You could also achieve this OS-side on any cheap keyboard.) If you want an additional row, you'll probably need to make the keyboard yourself. The fashion seems to be to reduce the number of available keys rather than increase it. Depending what you want it for, an alternative is to add an extra modifier key and use that modifier to get your extra characters, "FN+1" etc. Programming the keyboard to send arbitrary characters depends on the OS and the keyboard firmware. See [2]. [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html [2] https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode
- oAlbe 7y ago
  Is it generally reliable to buy such an item from aliexpress? Don't you end up with cheap version of more expensive keyboards? Asking because I've been looking for a 75% (non-split) keyboard for a long time, and it seems like aliexpress might have what I'm looking for. I'm just worried about ending up with a knock off.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    I found many people on Reddit had bought the YMDK "Split 75%" keyboard [1], so I was confident that it was fine. YMDK has several designs on AliExpress. I've also purchased from https://kbdfans.com/ https://kbdfans.com/. Yes, it's a cheaper version, but most of the additional cost was for things I don't care about (aluminium case, geek cred) and the small disadvantage (different default firmware that's less programmable) can be fixed by reflashing, if I feel I need it. Depending where you live, you might be hit with import taxes when buying something direct from China. From a blogger in China [2]: > USA is thriving with crowd funded fancy keyboards that will become available in year 3000, or DIY keyboards that take a life-time to build. > Meanwhile in China, sound ergonomic keyboards, are a dime a dozen, and 5 times cheaper, and you can buy it NOW. Here's one of them. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/search/?q=VE.A%20clone&restrict_sr=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/search/?q=VE.A%... [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/ly092_mini_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/ly092_mini_keyboard.html
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  > Do you still want the F1-F12 keys? Absolutely. I am an extremely active user of the F# keys. And I really want an extra row. As for now I have to use modifiers but having an extra row would be awesome.
masklinn 7y ago
Many keyboards have built-in shortcut keys (whether system or not) so yes. Not sure whether they leverage mostly unused codes from the Keyboard Page of USB HID, use non-keyboard pages, or use something else entirely. I'd expect many if not most "gaming" keyboards to provide "macro key" though their layout may not be what you want. Productivity keyboards also provide such keys sometimes e.g. Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 has a number of programmable shortcut keys sitting above the function keys.
reaperducer 7y ago
I once had an IBM keyboard with two very long rows of function keys (I think they were labeled PF1, PF2, etc...) above the numbers. There must have been 30 of them. The keyboard was a beast. Weighed as much as a Fiat and the fat cable terminated in something that looked like a Centronics connector. Then one day the computer was replaced by a Wang terminal with a svelte, modern keyboard and it felt like the future was finally here.
- MrMorden 7y ago
  This one? https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Similar, but not exactly that one. That one is infested with the abominable Windows keys. That one is also USB. The one I used was at least a decade before USB existed.
slightwinder 7y ago
A cheap solution would be to buy a macropad or a separate numberpad and then remap the keys. Macropads can be remapped on the pad itself, numberpad usually would need to be remapped on OS-level, but is chaper than the macropad. Numberpads go for around $10 dollar, while macropads are around $50 dollar.

wpasc 7y ago

you could get a keyboard with the standard function keys and create a custom keymap where the function keys did the numbers and the numbers did whatever you wanted

wielebny 7y ago

I use ms natural keyboard 4000 just because of that - extra row of keys that can be programmed to the liking. It's a shame that it does not have a USB hub (previous version had it) and that newer versions lack this row.

Symbiote 7y ago

Do you still want the F1-F12 keys? If you don't, choose a keyboard with an appropriate physical arrangement (I happen to have [1], which would work for this), and program it accordingly -- any mechanical keyboard lets you move the key mapping around. Optionally swap the plastic key caps around. (You could also achieve this OS-side on any cheap keyboard.) If you want an additional row, you'll probably need to make the keyboard yourself. The fashion seems to be to reduce the number of available keys rather than increase it. Depending what you want it for, an alternative is to add an extra modifier key and use that modifier to get your extra characters, "FN+1" etc. Programming the keyboard to send arbitrary characters depends on the OS and the keyboard firmware. See [2]. [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33006060286.html [2] https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/features/feature_unicode

oAlbe 7y ago
Is it generally reliable to buy such an item from aliexpress? Don't you end up with cheap version of more expensive keyboards? Asking because I've been looking for a 75% (non-split) keyboard for a long time, and it seems like aliexpress might have what I'm looking for. I'm just worried about ending up with a knock off.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  I found many people on Reddit had bought the YMDK "Split 75%" keyboard [1], so I was confident that it was fine. YMDK has several designs on AliExpress. I've also purchased from https://kbdfans.com/ https://kbdfans.com/. Yes, it's a cheaper version, but most of the additional cost was for things I don't care about (aluminium case, geek cred) and the small disadvantage (different default firmware that's less programmable) can be fixed by reflashing, if I feel I need it. Depending where you live, you might be hit with import taxes when buying something direct from China. From a blogger in China [2]: > USA is thriving with crowd funded fancy keyboards that will become available in year 3000, or DIY keyboards that take a life-time to build. > Meanwhile in China, sound ergonomic keyboards, are a dime a dozen, and 5 times cheaper, and you can buy it NOW. Here's one of them. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/search/?q=VE.A%20clone&restrict_sr=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/search/?q=VE.A%... [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/ly092_mini_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/ly092_mini_keyboard.html
qwerty456127 7y ago
> Do you still want the F1-F12 keys? Absolutely. I am an extremely active user of the F# keys. And I really want an extra row. As for now I have to use modifiers but having an extra row would be awesome.

masklinn 7y ago

Many keyboards have built-in shortcut keys (whether system or not) so yes. Not sure whether they leverage mostly unused codes from the Keyboard Page of USB HID, use non-keyboard pages, or use something else entirely. I'd expect many if not most "gaming" keyboards to provide "macro key" though their layout may not be what you want. Productivity keyboards also provide such keys sometimes e.g. Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 has a number of programmable shortcut keys sitting above the function keys.

reaperducer 7y ago

I once had an IBM keyboard with two very long rows of function keys (I think they were labeled PF1, PF2, etc...) above the numbers. There must have been 30 of them. The keyboard was a beast. Weighed as much as a Fiat and the fat cable terminated in something that looked like a Centronics connector. Then one day the computer was replaced by a Wang terminal with a svelte, modern keyboard and it felt like the future was finally here.

MrMorden 7y ago
This one? https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40L5A
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Similar, but not exactly that one. That one is infested with the abominable Windows keys. That one is also USB. The one I used was at least a decade before USB existed.

slightwinder 7y ago

A cheap solution would be to buy a macropad or a separate numberpad and then remap the keys. Macropads can be remapped on the pad itself, numberpad usually would need to be remapped on OS-level, but is chaper than the macropad. Numberpads go for around $10 dollar, while macropads are around $50 dollar.