6 ms·

>But with a very customer-friendly clause of where if you pay for a subscription for 12 months you get a perpetual license for the latest version of the product

by lol768 7y ago

>But with a very customer-friendly clause of where if you pay for a subscription for 12 months you get a perpetual license for the latest version of the product when you initially subscribed. And then after paying for any particular version of a product for 12 months, you also get a perpetual license for that particular version and so on and so forth This came about due to a decent amount of consumer backlash, if I recall correctly. They used to sell standalone perpetual licenses which included a period of updates.

georgemcbay 7y ago
Still commendable given how common it is these days for companies to get consumer backlash and just continue to do the same thing while comically trying to publicly convince the customer base that the new model is somehow better for them when any rational person can see it isn't. Also useful as a guide to show the customer they should go ahead and voice their displeasure when these situations arise, preferably before the product is so entrenched in the given market that they can "pull an Adobe" in this situation ("Don't like the new terms? Fuck you, pay us").
- lol768 7y ago
  Oh, absolutely. I think they handled this particular change quite gracefully. It's a compromise.
srcmap 7y ago
Google must play InteliJ for the Android Studio License use, right? I wonder how big is that part of the revenue.
- mongol 7y ago
  Given that Kotlin now also is first class development language for Android, I think Jetbrains gets plenty of revenue from Android
  - enitihas 7y ago
    I don't think Jetbrains gets any money directly by the usage of Kotlin on Android, as Kotlin too is open source, and works very well in IntelliJ Community (also open-source). In fact, I don't think IntelliJ ultimate has any extra Kotlin features.
    - dcow 7y ago
      Regardless, I’m sure they are getting money.
    - snuxoll 7y ago
      No, but IntelliJ ultimate has more features than Android Studio given there are JetBrains developed plugins that aren’t available in the CE platform. Guice support, for example. You can live without it, but if you are working on a larger Android codebase and utilize it then it may be useful.
      - enitihas 7y ago
        IntelliJ Ultimate has a lot of extra features, yes, but I don't recall any of them being related to Kotlin, or Android, so I don't think the parent comment claiming kotlin usage will result in extra revenue is relevant.
- enitihas 7y ago
  I think android studio uses the community (open source) version of IntelliJ Idea, so it should not be a big part of Jetbrains revenue.
ScottBurson 7y ago
> They used to sell standalone perpetual licenses which included a period of updates. I'm missing something. What's the difference between that and what they're doing now? You pay $X, you get a perpetual licence and updates for a limited period.
- michaf 7y ago
  Now the perpetual licensed version always lags 12 months behind in updates, i.e. you do not have a perpetual license for the past 12 months worth of updates at the time your subscription runs out.
- lol768 7y ago
  In addition to what michaf mentioned, what we have now is not what they originally proposed. https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-the-jetbrains-toolbox-announcement/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-t... - the perpetual license fallback did not exist under the original proposals and only happened due to backlash.
  - mynameisvlad 7y ago
    Why does this matter? Yes, their original plan was pure SaaS. But they listened to criticism and changed it once they realized that there was backlash from the community. If anything, that should be admired not criticized.
    - lol768 7y ago
      > Why does this matter? Yes, their original plan was pure SaaS. But they listened to criticism and changed it once they realized that there was backlash from the community. If anything, that should be admired not criticized. It's useful context. Yes, it's good that they listened to their customer base - and I've not criticised the current subscription model. But I still think it's relevant and on-topic to point out that the previous model was more generous and they tried to do full-SaaS when reading the parent comment in isolation sort of suggests they did this out of the goodness of their hearts (and entirely unprompted).
sireat 7y ago
A huge part of the backslash actually happened here on HN when they originally proposed the pure (like Adobe and 90% of other companies) SaaS model. So Jetbrains model is an improvement over most other companies but it is not as consumer friendly as the old licensing model. I would love to have the old model back(buy now with 12 months of updates) but that ship has sailed.
- snuxoll 7y ago
  Sure, it came about due to backlash - but they still listened to their customer base and made changes, quite publicly admitting they had pushed the subscription model too far. Honestly I’m quite happy with it as a compromise, especially with the All Products Pack - I save money every year than when I used to buy upgrades for IntelliJ and ReSharper stand-alone, and JetBrains has incentive to keep pumping out new features to keep me from deciding to utilize my fallback license.
Lazare 7y ago
When you say it like that, it doesn't sound amazing, but you can also phrase it as: "JetBrains listened to their customers, took feedback on board, and made meaningful changes that addressed the concerns." In a perfect world, that would the minimum expected behaviour, but in the world we live in, it's kind of surprising when it happens.
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  Or.. JetBrains went ahead with a disliked move, then took a half-step back. There's still a half-step in the wrong direction remaining, on top of showing that they would have been willing to go the whole way if they could have gotten away with it.
- monksy 7y ago
  It wasn't amazing. There was a lot of unneccessary effort to change their mind.
- antpol 7y ago
  You can frame it whatever you want. Fact is, if not the pushback JetBrains would be worse than Adobe
- gmiller123456 7y ago
  "JetBrains listened to their customers..." Yes, you can make something sound positive when you leave out material facts. They knew an expiring license would be much less popular than a non-expiring one before they did it. So, just saying they listened to their customers leaves out the very important detail that they ignored their customers the first time around.

by lol768 7y ago

georgemcbay 7y ago

Still commendable given how common it is these days for companies to get consumer backlash and just continue to do the same thing while comically trying to publicly convince the customer base that the new model is somehow better for them when any rational person can see it isn't. Also useful as a guide to show the customer they should go ahead and voice their displeasure when these situations arise, preferably before the product is so entrenched in the given market that they can "pull an Adobe" in this situation ("Don't like the new terms? Fuck you, pay us").

lol768 7y ago
Oh, absolutely. I think they handled this particular change quite gracefully. It's a compromise.

srcmap 7y ago

Google must play InteliJ for the Android Studio License use, right? I wonder how big is that part of the revenue.

mongol 7y ago
Given that Kotlin now also is first class development language for Android, I think Jetbrains gets plenty of revenue from Android
- enitihas 7y ago
  I don't think Jetbrains gets any money directly by the usage of Kotlin on Android, as Kotlin too is open source, and works very well in IntelliJ Community (also open-source). In fact, I don't think IntelliJ ultimate has any extra Kotlin features.
  - dcow 7y ago
    Regardless, I’m sure they are getting money.
  - snuxoll 7y ago
    No, but IntelliJ ultimate has more features than Android Studio given there are JetBrains developed plugins that aren’t available in the CE platform. Guice support, for example. You can live without it, but if you are working on a larger Android codebase and utilize it then it may be useful.
    - enitihas 7y ago
      IntelliJ Ultimate has a lot of extra features, yes, but I don't recall any of them being related to Kotlin, or Android, so I don't think the parent comment claiming kotlin usage will result in extra revenue is relevant.
enitihas 7y ago
I think android studio uses the community (open source) version of IntelliJ Idea, so it should not be a big part of Jetbrains revenue.

ScottBurson 7y ago

> They used to sell standalone perpetual licenses which included a period of updates. I'm missing something. What's the difference between that and what they're doing now? You pay $X, you get a perpetual licence and updates for a limited period.

michaf 7y ago
Now the perpetual licensed version always lags 12 months behind in updates, i.e. you do not have a perpetual license for the past 12 months worth of updates at the time your subscription runs out.
lol768 7y ago
In addition to what michaf mentioned, what we have now is not what they originally proposed. https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-the-jetbrains-toolbox-announcement/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/18/final-update-on-t... - the perpetual license fallback did not exist under the original proposals and only happened due to backlash.
- mynameisvlad 7y ago
  Why does this matter? Yes, their original plan was pure SaaS. But they listened to criticism and changed it once they realized that there was backlash from the community. If anything, that should be admired not criticized.
  - lol768 7y ago
    > Why does this matter? Yes, their original plan was pure SaaS. But they listened to criticism and changed it once they realized that there was backlash from the community. If anything, that should be admired not criticized. It's useful context. Yes, it's good that they listened to their customer base - and I've not criticised the current subscription model. But I still think it's relevant and on-topic to point out that the previous model was more generous and they tried to do full-SaaS when reading the parent comment in isolation sort of suggests they did this out of the goodness of their hearts (and entirely unprompted).

sireat 7y ago

A huge part of the backslash actually happened here on HN when they originally proposed the pure (like Adobe and 90% of other companies) SaaS model. So Jetbrains model is an improvement over most other companies but it is not as consumer friendly as the old licensing model. I would love to have the old model back(buy now with 12 months of updates) but that ship has sailed.

snuxoll 7y ago
Sure, it came about due to backlash - but they still listened to their customer base and made changes, quite publicly admitting they had pushed the subscription model too far. Honestly I’m quite happy with it as a compromise, especially with the All Products Pack - I save money every year than when I used to buy upgrades for IntelliJ and ReSharper stand-alone, and JetBrains has incentive to keep pumping out new features to keep me from deciding to utilize my fallback license.

Lazare 7y ago

When you say it like that, it doesn't sound amazing, but you can also phrase it as: "JetBrains listened to their customers, took feedback on board, and made meaningful changes that addressed the concerns." In a perfect world, that would the minimum expected behaviour, but in the world we live in, it's kind of surprising when it happens.

Nullabillity 7y ago
Or.. JetBrains went ahead with a disliked move, then took a half-step back. There's still a half-step in the wrong direction remaining, on top of showing that they would have been willing to go the whole way if they could have gotten away with it.
monksy 7y ago
It wasn't amazing. There was a lot of unneccessary effort to change their mind.
antpol 7y ago
You can frame it whatever you want. Fact is, if not the pushback JetBrains would be worse than Adobe
gmiller123456 7y ago
"JetBrains listened to their customers..." Yes, you can make something sound positive when you leave out material facts. They knew an expiring license would be much less popular than a non-expiring one before they did it. So, just saying they listened to their customers leaves out the very important detail that they ignored their customers the first time around.