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Policies must work in the real world, not in the world of our dreams and fantasies. And in this world Google has an actual monopoly that won’t be broken without

Policies must work in the real world, not in the world of our dreams and fantasies. And in this world Google has an actual monopoly that won’t be broken without government intervention.

lonelappde 7y ago
Monopoly on what? Search, or ads?
- spookthesunset 7y ago
  And people downvote you, which is silly. What, exactly, does google have a monopoly on? People use their products because they are good, not because they have to. Anybody could cone along with better mail, maps, or search and people would have little trouble switching (okay mail might be tricky).
fauigerzigerk 7y ago
I have chosen my words very carefully exactly because I did not want to say that government action against Google is not merited for any reason. But calling for government action just because people can't be bothered to use a different search engine that is just a click away discredits all valid criticism of Google's dominant market position.
jedimastert 7y ago
> And in this world Google has an actual monopoly that won’t be broken without government intervention. On what? I genuinely don't see what people think google has a "monopoly" on. It's definitely the biggest player in search and ads, but it's nowhere near the only company. I wouldn't even call them "overly dominant"
- BlueTemplar 7y ago
  Google, not "overtly dominant" in its Search, Maps and YouTube services?!? (Also Android, going by market share rather than worth.)
  - ttoinou 7y ago
    They are just as dominant as they provide good service. there are alternatives, nobody is forcing people to use Google
  - jedimastert 7y ago
    YouTube might be the closest for user generated streaming and video hosting, but Twitch and Vimeo still exist and are happily chugging along. Maps and Search, not really. I'm perfectly happy to use DDG for both, and I'm not made to suffer for it. As a litmus test I might say that "overly dominant" means that a slightly-above-average member of the audience couldn't name another option, and I don't really think any of these would hold up. > Also Android, going by market share rather than worth. Android vs iOS are actually surprisingly close, with iOS winning in the US <https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share#us> https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share#us> (admittedly this is measured through UA sniffing and fingerprinting on websites, but I think the point stands)
    - BlueTemplar 7y ago
      > Maps and Search, not really. If you go with that, OpenStreetMap/iOS Maps and Bing "still exist and are happily chugging along" too ? In the US maybe, but worldwide Android has 87% market share ! As a reminder, "monopoly" is the ability of being able to dictate your terms to the market - when a company (or cartel) has such a power, the market isn't free anymore.
bo1024 7y ago
Sure but there is a huge space for government intervention -- it could encourage the competition and level the playing field instead. Doctorow (for example) argues a better approach is to require things like open standards and interoperability.

Policies must work in the real world, not in the world of our dreams and fantasies. And in this world Google has an actual monopoly that won’t be broken without government intervention.

lonelappde 7y ago

Monopoly on what? Search, or ads?

spookthesunset 7y ago
And people downvote you, which is silly. What, exactly, does google have a monopoly on? People use their products because they are good, not because they have to. Anybody could cone along with better mail, maps, or search and people would have little trouble switching (okay mail might be tricky).

fauigerzigerk 7y ago

I have chosen my words very carefully exactly because I did not want to say that government action against Google is not merited for any reason. But calling for government action just because people can't be bothered to use a different search engine that is just a click away discredits all valid criticism of Google's dominant market position.

jedimastert 7y ago

> And in this world Google has an actual monopoly that won’t be broken without government intervention. On what? I genuinely don't see what people think google has a "monopoly" on. It's definitely the biggest player in search and ads, but it's nowhere near the only company. I wouldn't even call them "overly dominant"

BlueTemplar 7y ago
Google, not "overtly dominant" in its Search, Maps and YouTube services?!? (Also Android, going by market share rather than worth.)
- ttoinou 7y ago
  They are just as dominant as they provide good service. there are alternatives, nobody is forcing people to use Google
- jedimastert 7y ago
  YouTube might be the closest for user generated streaming and video hosting, but Twitch and Vimeo still exist and are happily chugging along. Maps and Search, not really. I'm perfectly happy to use DDG for both, and I'm not made to suffer for it. As a litmus test I might say that "overly dominant" means that a slightly-above-average member of the audience couldn't name another option, and I don't really think any of these would hold up. > Also Android, going by market share rather than worth. Android vs iOS are actually surprisingly close, with iOS winning in the US <https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share#us> https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share#us> (admittedly this is measured through UA sniffing and fingerprinting on websites, but I think the point stands)
  - BlueTemplar 7y ago
    > Maps and Search, not really. If you go with that, OpenStreetMap/iOS Maps and Bing "still exist and are happily chugging along" too ? In the US maybe, but worldwide Android has 87% market share ! As a reminder, "monopoly" is the ability of being able to dictate your terms to the market - when a company (or cartel) has such a power, the market isn't free anymore.

bo1024 7y ago

Sure but there is a huge space for government intervention -- it could encourage the competition and level the playing field instead. Doctorow (for example) argues a better approach is to require things like open standards and interoperability.