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Well, all societies are bound to collapse, and that's probably one reason. More tactically, the wealthy are often polite, non-violent, and spend a lot of money

Well, all societies are bound to collapse, and that's probably one reason. More tactically, the wealthy are often polite, non-violent, and spend a lot of money in their near vicinity, and this serves to completely insulate them from the social/emotional effects of how they acquired the money. Nasty looks, shunning, or the threat of it, goes a long way toward enforcing social norms. Another issue is the often jaw-dropping cynicism of a business world so obsessed with doing things, that any concern with how they are done is totally ignored. It's a world in which "cheating" loses its meaning; anyone who is incensed at unethical, or even illegal (but not enforced) behavior is a naive rube. Ultimately, I think this happens because of a catastrophic failure of the justice system.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
The numbers in a billionaire's net worth include no contextual information - nothing about the lives damaged, the jobs lost, the opportunities eliminated, the time wasted, the scamming, cheating, and manipulation, the ecological support structures destroyed. Business and personal accounting systems deny, ignore, and suppress those contextual details. So does the "investment" industry. And that makes a mockery of "price discovery" because the nominal market price always excludes critical externalities. It's possible to become extremely rich without negative externalities. It just happens to be incredibly difficult. The looser your ethics, and the less empathy you have for competitors and victims, the easier it gets. It's a feedback loop which rewards unethical behaviour. Essentially, money itself is a form of morality-laundering. It's an integer when it should be a complete trace through a common contextual event map.
- javajosh 7y ago
  Indeed, and what makes it interesting is that the information can (and should) travel in both directions: just as I want to know what my dollar has done when I buy an apple (e.g. I paid starvation wages to farmers and justified clear-cutting of a piece of rain-forest, gave political contributions to some dictator, etc) and the vendor gets to know how I earned that money (e.g. an office job where I make software content that tricks users into giving up more personal info, ultimately to get a higher ad price). You run into a technical issue in that you can trace a dollar indefinitely in both directions. But perhaps there's a solution, like some sort of decay.
  - JimboOmega 7y ago
    I don't know if you've ever seen "The Good Place" but it's a driving plot point of a recent season that it's almost impossible to be "good" because every action you take has all these unintended consequences/ supports all these negative systems.
randycupertino 7y ago
> More tactically, the wealthy are often polite, non-violent, and spend a lot of money in their near vicinity, and this serves to completely insulate them from the social/emotional effects of how they acquired the money. Nasty looks, shunning, or the threat of it, goes a long way toward enforcing social norms. Neumann and his wife have been getting rejected from several condo boards in NYC since the scandal came out: https://pagesix.com/2019/10/03/ex-wework-adam-neumann-ceo-rejected-by-multiple-co-op-boards/ https://pagesix.com/2019/10/03/ex-wework-adam-neumann-ceo-re...

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago

The numbers in a billionaire's net worth include no contextual information - nothing about the lives damaged, the jobs lost, the opportunities eliminated, the time wasted, the scamming, cheating, and manipulation, the ecological support structures destroyed. Business and personal accounting systems deny, ignore, and suppress those contextual details. So does the "investment" industry. And that makes a mockery of "price discovery" because the nominal market price always excludes critical externalities. It's possible to become extremely rich without negative externalities. It just happens to be incredibly difficult. The looser your ethics, and the less empathy you have for competitors and victims, the easier it gets. It's a feedback loop which rewards unethical behaviour. Essentially, money itself is a form of morality-laundering. It's an integer when it should be a complete trace through a common contextual event map.

javajosh 7y ago
Indeed, and what makes it interesting is that the information can (and should) travel in both directions: just as I want to know what my dollar has done when I buy an apple (e.g. I paid starvation wages to farmers and justified clear-cutting of a piece of rain-forest, gave political contributions to some dictator, etc) and the vendor gets to know how I earned that money (e.g. an office job where I make software content that tricks users into giving up more personal info, ultimately to get a higher ad price). You run into a technical issue in that you can trace a dollar indefinitely in both directions. But perhaps there's a solution, like some sort of decay.
- JimboOmega 7y ago
  I don't know if you've ever seen "The Good Place" but it's a driving plot point of a recent season that it's almost impossible to be "good" because every action you take has all these unintended consequences/ supports all these negative systems.

randycupertino 7y ago

> More tactically, the wealthy are often polite, non-violent, and spend a lot of money in their near vicinity, and this serves to completely insulate them from the social/emotional effects of how they acquired the money. Nasty looks, shunning, or the threat of it, goes a long way toward enforcing social norms. Neumann and his wife have been getting rejected from several condo boards in NYC since the scandal came out: https://pagesix.com/2019/10/03/ex-wework-adam-neumann-ceo-rejected-by-multiple-co-op-boards/ https://pagesix.com/2019/10/03/ex-wework-adam-neumann-ceo-re...