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>People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be caut

by chki 7y ago

>People from Africa or Asia routinely get held at extraterritorial prisons indefinitely. In case you have mixed ancestry and look like "people of color" be cautious. Not regarding anything else you are claiming this is quite an outrageous claim and I have no recollection of such things going on in Germany for the last few years. It would also be a severe violation of the German constitution if this would be happening (extraterritoriality doesn't matter) not even mentioning the European Charter of Human Rights and other important Human Rights treaties. Edit: I would be very interested in hearing about some concrete examples. If this is happening (which I somewhat doubt) there is definitely not enough spotlight on it in the Public Debate in Germany.

Perenti 7y ago
This kind of detention definately happens in Australia, or more precisely in concentration camps paid for by the Australian Government in other Pacific nations. Makes me ashamed to be Australian.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
fefe23 7y ago
Germany does not have extraterritorial prison colonies. I think this is a combination of hyperbole and choosing the wrong word. Germany does have housing for refugees and asylum seekers while they wait for asylum to be granted or denied, and the conditions there might be construed as prison-like depending on your political point of view. Technically it's not a prison. Asylum seekers are not permitted to do paid work, for example, and I think they also cannot exercise freedom of movement inside the EU or Germany (they have to clear moving to a different city with the authorities first and they are generally not given enough money to actually move around). The EU has made a deal with Turkey to prevent refugees from Syria to come to the EU. That might be construed as an extraterritorial prison camp (the press has been mostly silent about the conditions those people are held in but I assume they are not very nice). Technically, even if that is a prison colony, it's not Germany's. Greece has also held refugees in camps, one could interpret this as "on behalf of Germany", which I think is technically incorrect but in a sense still true. German political debate has unfortunately become a shouting match between leftists who use war-cry terminology like OP did here, and right-wing populists who complain that asylum seekers should be sent home straight away and should not be allowed a legal way to protest if they are denied asylum status. As always in shouting matches and war, the first victim are the facts and the truth. Personally I think it is abhorrent how the EU is building a fortress to keep refugees out. Compared to most other EU countries however, Germany is by far not the worst of the bunch. Also I think far too little is being done to remove the reasons why people would leave everything behind and flee to the EU. You can't win scenarios like this by fighting the symptoms and doing cosmetics only. Also, dear American friends, the biggest reasons for refugees from the middle east fleeing to Europe are a) your constant wars and meddling in the area and b) climate change, which from Europe also looks like it is disproportionally being caused by you. (Prepare for downvotes in 3... 2...)
- livueta 7y ago
  > Also, dear American friends, the biggest reasons for refugees from the middle east fleeing to Europe are a) your constant wars and meddling in the area While you're not entirely wrong about that, there's more than enough blame to go around: Via the Sykes-Picot agreement, the British, French and sorta the Italians laid the groundwork for centuries of violence by betraying the Arabs (who helped them topple the Ottomans) in order to further their own colonial and arguably Zionist objectives. More recently, the French were the first to go all-in against Gadaffi. While the US piled on later, it's difficult to argue that the US is the sole military provocator in recent middle-eastern refugee-spawning wars. I overall agree with your points, but attempting to declaim all responsibility by pointing at the big evil Americans comes off as ahistorical, head-in-sand deflection.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Your first point is extremely ignorant. The mess in the Middle East was mainly created by the Ottoman Empire consolidating disparate ethnicities and religions into one empire, and then Europe’s dissection of it after WWI (dividing it between Britain and France). The US inherited the mess afterward. Syria, for example, is ruled by an Alawite minority. The Ottomans oppressed them and tried to convert them to Sunni Islam. When the French took over, they favored the Alawites and created a separate Alawite state. The French encouraged them to join the Syrian military (because the Alawites were friendlier to the French than the more hostile Sunni). Eventually, that Alawite contingent in the military led a coup that led to the Alawite minority ruling over the Sunni majority for decades until the civil war. Literally every ethnic and religious fault line in the Middle East that is now causing violence is the doing of the Turks, British, and French.
  - barrkel 7y ago
    The problem with the ME is oil (resource curse) and Dutch disease creating the conditions for kleptocratic authoritarian states. I don't think a different slicing would have avoided the dysfunction much. Hopefully a post-hydrocarbon economy will rebalance things; meanwhile, Trump literally thinks that the US is involved in the ME to take oil. The biggest problem of late was the US neocons thinking that overthrowing the previous set of kleptocrats would have a positive outcome. I think it's clear now that wasn't correct.
devdas 7y ago
Refugees get sent to Libyan prisons in an attempt to prevent them from entering the EU at all. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/10/libya-migrants-un-iom-refugees-die-detention-center-civil-war/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/10/libya-migrants-un-iom-r... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/03/libya-migrants-tripoli-refugees-detention-camps https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/03/libya-migrants...
onreact 7y ago
Every German airport with international flights has a "detention centre". Even though the new airport in Berlin is still not ready the prison has been finished in 2012: https://www.morgenpost.de/flughafen-BER/article108749351/Flughafen-ist-noch-im-Bau-aber-das-Asylgefaengnis-steht.html https://www.morgenpost.de/flughafen-BER/article108749351/Flu...
- chki 7y ago
  Yes that makes sense, but that's something completely different than targeting people because of their race and keeping them there "indefinitely".

by chki 7y ago

Perenti 7y ago

This kind of detention definately happens in Australia, or more precisely in concentration camps paid for by the Australian Government in other Pacific nations. Makes me ashamed to be Australian.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

fefe23 7y ago

Germany does not have extraterritorial prison colonies. I think this is a combination of hyperbole and choosing the wrong word. Germany does have housing for refugees and asylum seekers while they wait for asylum to be granted or denied, and the conditions there might be construed as prison-like depending on your political point of view. Technically it's not a prison. Asylum seekers are not permitted to do paid work, for example, and I think they also cannot exercise freedom of movement inside the EU or Germany (they have to clear moving to a different city with the authorities first and they are generally not given enough money to actually move around). The EU has made a deal with Turkey to prevent refugees from Syria to come to the EU. That might be construed as an extraterritorial prison camp (the press has been mostly silent about the conditions those people are held in but I assume they are not very nice). Technically, even if that is a prison colony, it's not Germany's. Greece has also held refugees in camps, one could interpret this as "on behalf of Germany", which I think is technically incorrect but in a sense still true. German political debate has unfortunately become a shouting match between leftists who use war-cry terminology like OP did here, and right-wing populists who complain that asylum seekers should be sent home straight away and should not be allowed a legal way to protest if they are denied asylum status. As always in shouting matches and war, the first victim are the facts and the truth. Personally I think it is abhorrent how the EU is building a fortress to keep refugees out. Compared to most other EU countries however, Germany is by far not the worst of the bunch. Also I think far too little is being done to remove the reasons why people would leave everything behind and flee to the EU. You can't win scenarios like this by fighting the symptoms and doing cosmetics only. Also, dear American friends, the biggest reasons for refugees from the middle east fleeing to Europe are a) your constant wars and meddling in the area and b) climate change, which from Europe also looks like it is disproportionally being caused by you. (Prepare for downvotes in 3... 2...)

livueta 7y ago
> Also, dear American friends, the biggest reasons for refugees from the middle east fleeing to Europe are a) your constant wars and meddling in the area While you're not entirely wrong about that, there's more than enough blame to go around: Via the Sykes-Picot agreement, the British, French and sorta the Italians laid the groundwork for centuries of violence by betraying the Arabs (who helped them topple the Ottomans) in order to further their own colonial and arguably Zionist objectives. More recently, the French were the first to go all-in against Gadaffi. While the US piled on later, it's difficult to argue that the US is the sole military provocator in recent middle-eastern refugee-spawning wars. I overall agree with your points, but attempting to declaim all responsibility by pointing at the big evil Americans comes off as ahistorical, head-in-sand deflection.
rayiner 7y ago
Your first point is extremely ignorant. The mess in the Middle East was mainly created by the Ottoman Empire consolidating disparate ethnicities and religions into one empire, and then Europe’s dissection of it after WWI (dividing it between Britain and France). The US inherited the mess afterward. Syria, for example, is ruled by an Alawite minority. The Ottomans oppressed them and tried to convert them to Sunni Islam. When the French took over, they favored the Alawites and created a separate Alawite state. The French encouraged them to join the Syrian military (because the Alawites were friendlier to the French than the more hostile Sunni). Eventually, that Alawite contingent in the military led a coup that led to the Alawite minority ruling over the Sunni majority for decades until the civil war. Literally every ethnic and religious fault line in the Middle East that is now causing violence is the doing of the Turks, British, and French.
- barrkel 7y ago
  The problem with the ME is oil (resource curse) and Dutch disease creating the conditions for kleptocratic authoritarian states. I don't think a different slicing would have avoided the dysfunction much. Hopefully a post-hydrocarbon economy will rebalance things; meanwhile, Trump literally thinks that the US is involved in the ME to take oil. The biggest problem of late was the US neocons thinking that overthrowing the previous set of kleptocrats would have a positive outcome. I think it's clear now that wasn't correct.

devdas 7y ago

Refugees get sent to Libyan prisons in an attempt to prevent them from entering the EU at all. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/10/libya-migrants-un-iom-refugees-die-detention-center-civil-war/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/10/libya-migrants-un-iom-r... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/03/libya-migrants-tripoli-refugees-detention-camps https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/03/libya-migrants...

onreact 7y ago

Every German airport with international flights has a "detention centre". Even though the new airport in Berlin is still not ready the prison has been finished in 2012: https://www.morgenpost.de/flughafen-BER/article108749351/Flughafen-ist-noch-im-Bau-aber-das-Asylgefaengnis-steht.html https://www.morgenpost.de/flughafen-BER/article108749351/Flu...

chki 7y ago
Yes that makes sense, but that's something completely different than targeting people because of their race and keeping them there "indefinitely".