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If you put it in historical context it's neither hypersensitive nor paranoid. People did and do hold beliefs as universally applicable to every member of a grou

If you put it in historical context it's neither hypersensitive nor paranoid. People did and do hold beliefs as universally applicable to every member of a group. Women were not allowed to vote in the USA less than 100 years ago. Only in the 1960s did it became illegal to request a specific gender in job advertisements. And it was only in 1974 that it became illegal to discriminate using gender in credit matters, including being able to obtain and use credit cards. Plenty of people still use average and trends as an excuse to claim a gender (or race) is not as capable at some skill or career. It's not even that hard to find. Probably pretty easy actually in the US states that require creationism to be taught in public school. > and thus must be silenced Where did the parent comment say discussing averages must be silenced?

lawnchair_larry 7y ago
Those examples are not indications that people hold beliefs as universally applicable, especially those that were 100 years ago. Also, most auto insurance still discriminates against men, especially young unmarried men, and we know for certain that’s not because every actuary with authority at every insurance company is under the impression that the increased risk is applicable to every single member. Likewise for life insurance that asks about age and smoking. In case it needs to be said, there is a major difference between believing traits are universally applicable (which nobody believes) and believing that because something is true on average, that this is valid justification to discriminate against the whole group. If someone makes the claim that a given trait is true on average, and therefore discrimination against a group is justified, only then should the discussion focus on that. Otherwise, it’s logically inconsistent, hypocritical, and even a little ironic to suggest or even suspect that individual’s line of inquiry is in any way connected to them suggesting or even suspecting a diminished capability from you (or any other specific person) as an individual. > Plenty of people still use average and trends as an excuse to claim a gender (or race) is not as capable at some skill or career. It's not even that hard to find. I’ve never seen this claim being made personally, and I don’t believe it happens with any significant prevalence, at least in the US. I could be wrong of course. I have seen many cases of people claiming that someone said it, only for the truth to come out that they actually did not.
- tchaffee 7y ago
  > there is a major difference between believing traits are universally applicable (which nobody believes) It's not nobody. Go to an MRA (men's rights activists) online group and you can find loads of men who will give you detailed "proofs" of why all women are crazy. And they actually believe it. They have completely changed their lives to operate around this belief. Some common sense is called for when using "nobody believes". We've got flat earthers... > I’ve never seen this claim being made personally, and I don’t believe it happens with any significant prevalence, at least in the US. You probably spend time with folks who know what an actuary is. A trip through the Bible Belt in the USA where creationism is taught in public schools by law might be enlightening. Ask people to complete the phrase "all women are..." and see just how willing some folks are to defend their sweeping generalizations. So I'll repeat: it's not paranoia. There are real consequences to information in the hands of people who willingly misuse it to push an ideology. The solution for sure is not to suppress the information. But dismissing these things that really exist as paranoia is not helpful.
izacus 7y ago
> Plenty of people still use average and trends as an excuse to claim a gender (or race) is not as capable at some skill or career. It's not even that hard to find. Probably pretty easy actually in the US states that require creationism to be taught in public school. Hah, you can even find this in neighbouring comments in this very thread.

lawnchair_larry 7y ago

Those examples are not indications that people hold beliefs as universally applicable, especially those that were 100 years ago. Also, most auto insurance still discriminates against men, especially young unmarried men, and we know for certain that’s not because every actuary with authority at every insurance company is under the impression that the increased risk is applicable to every single member. Likewise for life insurance that asks about age and smoking. In case it needs to be said, there is a major difference between believing traits are universally applicable (which nobody believes) and believing that because something is true on average, that this is valid justification to discriminate against the whole group. If someone makes the claim that a given trait is true on average, and therefore discrimination against a group is justified, only then should the discussion focus on that. Otherwise, it’s logically inconsistent, hypocritical, and even a little ironic to suggest or even suspect that individual’s line of inquiry is in any way connected to them suggesting or even suspecting a diminished capability from you (or any other specific person) as an individual. > Plenty of people still use average and trends as an excuse to claim a gender (or race) is not as capable at some skill or career. It's not even that hard to find. I’ve never seen this claim being made personally, and I don’t believe it happens with any significant prevalence, at least in the US. I could be wrong of course. I have seen many cases of people claiming that someone said it, only for the truth to come out that they actually did not.

tchaffee 7y ago
> there is a major difference between believing traits are universally applicable (which nobody believes) It's not nobody. Go to an MRA (men's rights activists) online group and you can find loads of men who will give you detailed "proofs" of why all women are crazy. And they actually believe it. They have completely changed their lives to operate around this belief. Some common sense is called for when using "nobody believes". We've got flat earthers... > I’ve never seen this claim being made personally, and I don’t believe it happens with any significant prevalence, at least in the US. You probably spend time with folks who know what an actuary is. A trip through the Bible Belt in the USA where creationism is taught in public schools by law might be enlightening. Ask people to complete the phrase "all women are..." and see just how willing some folks are to defend their sweeping generalizations. So I'll repeat: it's not paranoia. There are real consequences to information in the hands of people who willingly misuse it to push an ideology. The solution for sure is not to suppress the information. But dismissing these things that really exist as paranoia is not helpful.

izacus 7y ago

> Plenty of people still use average and trends as an excuse to claim a gender (or race) is not as capable at some skill or career. It's not even that hard to find. Probably pretty easy actually in the US states that require creationism to be taught in public school. Hah, you can even find this in neighbouring comments in this very thread.